This brand is all cartons where I am, more efficient and environmentallly friendly.
this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2024
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Mildly Infuriating
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Cartons have plastic too, yeah? Cause plain cardboard isn't staying mess free for long if you fill it with milk. That said, it's probably less plastic, though this is also less plastic than just making the whole jug non-recyclable. Why they don't just make the label recyclable too is beyond me.
The problem is plastic is great for food safety. The way it makes air and water-tight seals, that can easily be broken, is hard to replicate. If cans could open, on their own, the way sealed plastic bottles do, then we could have easier recycling via metal containers. But the self-open cans make sharp edges and nobody's invented a way around that yet.
So we have all this plastic waste because people can't be bothered to operate a can opener?
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I think they used to wax the cardboard. Maybe they still do?
Depending on the type of wax used, it could be better, or it could be the same as plastic.
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That's how my milk used to come when I was a little kid.
Imagine doing something slightly inconvenient, let alone something that can take a whole second.
I think the point was, you're removing plastic from plastic to recycle plastic. The plastic you removed won't be recycled. So...what's the point? It's terrible package design.
The plastic you're removing can't be recycled. if left on the bottle, some recycling centers (maybe most actually) just throw out the bottle because it's more cost effective then preparing the bottle for recycling.
Any and all plastic bottles experience this problem (plastic bottle caps are bad too). This is a company making it more likely your bottle will be recycled, by making it easier to remove the non recyclable materials.
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Oh no ! Anyway .
Nearly all containers (glass or plastic) need to have their label removed to recycle properly. And you must rinse them out, too.
Some can be recycled with the label on, but only if the plastic used is the type that can be recycled. Confusing and frustrating, yes.
The crappy thing is that some labels really don't come off easily because they've been glued in place... those are awful to recycle because it requires quite a bit of extra effort, soaking, adhesive remover, etc... 😂
It would be so much easier if drink companies just used standardized containers instead of making their own homemade special designs to try and look fancy.
Orange juice was fine in a 2L cardboard box. We just recently got a jug of Tropicana or some shit and it's some fancy moulded pitcher shape with a spout and flip up plastic lid. That just makes everything more difficult, especially recycling because it will be a pain to rinse out I bet.
I'd be 100% ok if all containers were mason jars. Most of the time, I can't even reuse glass jars because of their stupid, non-standard lids!
Cereal should just come in a biodegradable plastic, no box.
But standardize everything. Never mind hassling consumers not to use plastic bags when companies are putting layer upon layer of plastic on their products. If a manufacturer can't use a standardized package, they shouldn't be allowed to sell the product without a massive environmental tax added onto their product.
And you must rinse them out, too.
This step right here has to end. Recycling facilities should have cycling filtered graywater loops to do the rinsing. Using clean drinking water to rinse out containers is an absolute waste.
I agree, but rinsing at home addresses multiple concerns.
I think the issue is that some people throw out containers with their lids on and completely covered in food matter.
a) it makes it difficult/impossible to actually recycle when it finally gets there. b) it attracts wildlife to your recycling bins.
It's just best practice, really.
A bottle is hard to rinse lid or not.
Wouldn’t you just rough chop the material and then rinse it?
Wouldn’t you just rough chop the material and then rinse it?
I don't even know if that's feasible, but if there's a municipality that already does this, I'd love to know how it's been going for them.
It wouldn't prevent the problem of wildlife/pests getting into dirty recycling items, though.
it attracts wildlife to your recycling bins
I'd argue this point is nullified given recycling and trash live next to each other for pick-up (at least in the US). If your bins don't seal to keep scent away, they'll be targeting the trash cans anyways.
In parts of the world where clean drinking water is at a premium and increasingly more so, (like the western half and soon 2/3 of the US) it definitely matters to conserve the water we need to live whenever possible.
This brings up another good point though, packaging design should be changed to ensure the maximum amount of purchased product can be removed for use as easily as possible. So many containers today are designed to be sold as "this has 20oz in it!" and only 18oz is accessible. They then have tiny necks or convoluted lips or shapes to make reaching into the container with tools to remove the rest of the product difficult. The companies don't care about the loss of product as the extra 2oz costs them essentially nothing. Even though that added weight is wasting energy being transported at every single stage of the supply chain to be thrown away at the end, they got the sale because it said 20 instead of 18 on the bottle and they could mark up the price accordingly!
tl;dr on the last paragraph: If the container is designed to start its recycling journey as devoid of product as possible, the whole process will have less cleanup and energy/water use, whatever the process is.
I’d argue this point is nullified given recycling and trash live next to each other for pick-up (at least in the US). If your bins don’t seal to keep scent away, they’ll be targeting the trash cans anyways.
I'm Canadian, and in my municipality, we have recycling (cardboard, plastic, glass), compost (food matter), and garbage (pretty much anything that can't be recycled.
The compost bins are sealed, so pests are never a concern. I don't have issues with open recycling bins, but did before I learned how to actually recycle stuff. My garbage bags never have issues, since they don't have food in them.
I can see issues in places that don't offer such a robust garbage/recycling program.
In parts of the world where clean drinking water is at a premium and increasingly more so, (like the western half and soon 2/3 of the US) it definitely matters to conserve the water we need to live whenever possible.
100% agree. It frustrates me to have to clean something that's going to be thrown out, but if you're strategic about it, you can find ways to do this with very minimal impact on water use.
Not to go off track, but I found that since I've been cooking my own beans, making my own non-dairy milk, and relying less on packaged good, my recycling bins are nearly empty every week. Reducing or reusing is often much better for everyone than recycling.
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Some can be recycled with the label on, but only if the plastic used is the type that can be recycled
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that only true if the plastic uses for the label is in the same category (same recycling symbol) as the bottle?
In my experience, some labels are quite detailed and will say whether you need to separate the label or lid from the container, or not.
But generally speaking, yes, assuming the material class is the same, it should be fine to recycle them together.
Oh I'm so fucking sorry this manufacturer gave you clear instructions on how to recycle properly
Your life must be truly horrible 😂
Look at the sub name. Now reread your comment. You're missing the point.
Nah, get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.
Ignoring the fact that hardly any plastic is actually recyclable in the first place, your argument is that conscious consumers should accept additional responsibilities on the off chance that it MIGHT actually get recycled?
We figured out how to print on basically any surface a long time ago. How about we hold companies to a standard of responsible packaging, instead of yet again passing the buck to the end user.
We need both. We need companies to do more to make things out of easier to recycle or compost materials, and we need consumers to do more to separate things to make them easier to recycle. It's far too late to push responsibilities around, we all need to be responsible.
Yep, this package design is about awareness, as much as responsibility
The dipshit that replied to me is beyond that, but kids will grow up with it, and think about it
Naw, you're the dip
My point was that it's not necessary, and the practice increases the likelihood that the entire bin will be thrown out because some consumer didn't peel them off. Then the company gets to say "we told them to do it, it's not our fault!"
I do peel these off, but I also think that they are irritating and actively hinder the problem at hand.
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Okay. So they do this in Japan. The plastic used in the wrapper is different than the plastic in the bottle. They require different processes to recycle. It’s also far more efficient for regular people to just rip it off and throw one in one bin and the other in another bin in their own homes than it is for a sorting facility to go through mountains of this stuff trying to get it right every single time. Frankly I wish more places did it this way.
I hope this explanation will make things even less infuriating.
Truth is, it doesn't matter anyway, because over 90% of plastic isn't being recycled.
This whole thing (the removable label to supposedly make the bottle more recyclable) is an exercise in futility and virtue signalling to the "green" demographic for profit, aka greenwashing.
Edit to be clear: the answer is to abolish capitalism, which is why all of this is happening in the first place.
It's like this in Europe too, it's just one, ahem, country that's a decade behind everyone, every time
I don't have different plastic recycling bins, but only one.
Where in Europe do you have different ones?
Never have encountered those, at least I didn't realize it (in Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland - although with some countries I'm maybe not completely up to date)
Edit: I was replaying to the wrong message, clicking is hard.
~~Sorting is way easier if you have to just pick stuff (semi automatically) from a conveyor belt vs having to pick individual object and separate the plastics (first figuring it how to do that, and also objects are all damaged).~~
~~Like plastic bottles and plastic bottles caps - it would be (or it partially is) immensely costlier to separate them by employees at the sorting site vs each of us taking the the ... or not taking the time end effort to screw the cap back on.~~
Did you answer the wrong guy?
Yeah, I absolutely do get that and didn't say anything against it
I just never saw them anywhere in Europe and would be interested where and how that recycling works.
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Recycling in Japan is a very involved process. You end up with like, 4 different bags of recyclable types, depending. I appreciate it.
Many cities just burn a lot of it. Technically “recycled” according to the definition and generates some energy, but plastic is just not great no matter how you look at it.
Source for some cities burning non-pet plastics in Japan: https://youtu.be/sAu3LVktMwE?si=30PgjrPFFiFFF7Tt&t=55s
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Minnesota is like that, too. At least near St. Paul/Minneapolis
Most European countries I've visited have at least 3 bins/bags : paper, plastic, everything else. Most cities also separate glass and aluminium. Some townhalls offer bags/containers for bio trash, that's turned into compost.
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