this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
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Privacy

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Telegram CEO Pavel Durov recently announced that Telegram would be handing over user data (such as phone numbers and IP adresses) to the authorities. Now it turns out that it has been doing so since 2018.

My previous post may have seemed to announce a major shift in how Telegram works. But in reality, little has changed.

Since 2018, Telegram has been able to disclose IP addresses/phone numbers of criminals to authorities, according to our Privacy Policy in most countries.

For example, in Brazil, we disclosed data for 75 legal requests in Q1 (January-March) 2024, 63 in Q2, and 65 in Q3. In India, our largest market, we satisfied 2461 legal requests in Q1, 2151 in Q2, and 2380 in Q3.

To reduce confusion, last week, we streamlined and unified our privacy policy across different countries.

Telegram was built to protect activists and ordinary people from corrupt governments and corporations — we do not allow criminals to abuse our platform or evade justice.

Full text of the post.📰 My previous post may have seemed to announce a major shift in how Telegram works. But in reality, little has changed.

🌐 Since 2018, Telegram has been able to disclose IP addresses/phone numbers of criminals to authorities, according to our Privacy Policy in most countries.

⚖️ Whenever we received a properly formed legal request via relevant communication lines, we would verify it and disclose the IP addresses/phone numbers of dangerous criminals. This process had been in place long before last week.

🤖 Our @transparency bot demonstrates exactly that. This bot shows the number of processed requests for user data.

✉️ For example, in Brazil, we disclosed data for 75 legal requests in Q1 (January-March) 2024, 63 in Q2, and 65 in Q3. In India, our largest market, we satisfied 2461 legal requests in Q1, 2151 in Q2, and 2380 in Q3.

📈 In Europe, there was an uptick in the number of valid legal requests we received in Q3. This increase was caused by the fact that more EU authorities started to use the correct communication line for their requests, the one mandated by the EU DSA law. Information about this contact point has been publicly available to anyone who viewed the Telegram website or googled “Telegram EU address for law enforcement” since early 2024. 

🤝 To reduce confusion, last week, we streamlined and unified our privacy policy across different countries. But our core principles haven’t changed. We’ve always strived to comply with relevant local laws — as long as they didn’t go against our values of freedom and privacy.

🛡 Telegram was built to protect activists and ordinary people from corrupt governments and corporations — we do not allow criminals to abuse our platform or evade justice.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is a wild admission. Not only does it show that Telegram completely betrayed all of their users, but it also reveals that they know about all the terrorism and child porn channels on their service, and deliberately didn't delete them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

If I'm being charitable I could presume that they left them so as to not disrupt sting operations

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

You mean they've lied all along?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Good thing I never trusted it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

Implementing an in-house encryption was raising eyebrows already back then. No e2ee as default was also a red flag since it gives users without proper knowledge a false sense of security.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

There was some privacy centered linux group that used Telegram that I thought I needed to follow, but noped out when they required a real phone number.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I assume every single chat app is either a honey pot or is more than willing to hand over all logs to law enforcement. Anything advertising E2EE is basically saying "hey all you pedophiles and money launderers, have I got a data tracking app for you!"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

No mobile platform is secure. Even EncroChat was broken.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I know you didn't directly say it but it's implied so I wanted to clarify.

telegram chat isn't E2E, the only E2E on the platform is secret chats, which is only available to mobile users of the platform and not enabled by default. It does have client-server encryption but, in the terms of privacy that is worthless if you don't trust the host (and it opens the host up to legal information requests as it has the capability of decrypting the messages)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Pretty sure this is the same as every other messaging app - metadata is never protected information. The contents of the messages may be encrypted to some extent (which on Telegram they are, not end-to-end as with iMessage, but they’re not plain text), however your IP address, username, etc are subject to subpoena on any messaging platform.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

ok this feels like a real hot take. but i am somewhat glad about this. in my country telegram has the reputation to be the nazi (and sometimes the pedo-) app. so i am not unhappy those people online activity can be used against them in court. That beeing said i can respect people who feel otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

I'm with you. If they're verifying the information request, as in vetting it to determine if there is actual criminal behavior going on i.e. pedos/money laundering/etc, then good. Hand them over to the authorities.

They state that they don't cater to corrupt governments or organizations - good.

Everyone here arguing against these things are throwing up major red flags. Didn't the CEO just go to court because he wasn't handing over information willy nilly? I would hope Signal and Proton would be doing the same things.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I am not sure that this news relates to passing the content of telegram messages to any authority. If i read it correctly it is just about sharing personal information such as ip adress, phone number etc.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

i do not get that from the resources provided here and havent heard about that either... the ip adress ect. is shared with authorities only, which i personaly dont disagree with per se. maybe i was unclear i my first coment about that tho.

If you got info about telegram sharing that info with private institutions, and are willing to share, id love to read that. that would make me deinstall the app rather quickly ^^

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Surprised pikachu face….

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

noone expected this

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