this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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Today I Learned

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (29 children)

I've been reading about the Holocaust a fair bit of late, and it's interesting to see the debate around the functionalist/intentionalist view of how it happened. OP's story seems to lend credence to the former version, in that the Nazi state was a patchwork of warring factions that were each trying to take power for themselves and in an effort to do so, tried a little too hard to do what they imagined Hitler wanted of them, namely more and more murder and ruthlessness and general mayhem, eventually culminating in plans for wholesale extermination. This is the functionalist view, where things happened almost in a bottom-up fashion, whereas the intentionalist idea is one where Hitler planned the Holocaust from day one in a top-down approach. I personally think it's more likely to be the former though, at least from what I've read about it anyway.

Growing up in the '80s and '90s, I never really learned much about the Holocaust aspect of WWII. I knew the broad strokes, of course, but the finer details of the Nazi state's operations are where the true horror lies. Even without WWII or the Holocaust, it was one of the purest examples of a nightmarish dystopia run by corrupt, amoral, incompetent, petty, narcissistic lunatics and sociopaths. The parallels with certain modern governments is terrifying...

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m00084td/rise-of-the-nazis

that is what told me the USA is fucked; that series is so spot on to what is happening here

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (4 children)

When the killing starts here in the states, the media will just report on basketball and celebrities.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The revolution will not be televised

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Have you heard the latest in the Diddy trial?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You're right.

And the big social media platforms will censor any information about it. We already saw with January 6th that Americans are perfectly happy to just ignore what they can see with their own two eyes, so I suspect, it won't be too heavy a lift for them to step over dead bodies in the streets as long as the smell isn't too much.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

and here we are with "someone died in detention" as just another tuesday

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I try to make it a point not to use the word 'detention' since it's so purposefully sanitized.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

good call. language matters now more than ever, and their newspeak redefinition of words needs to be recognized as the weapon they're using it for

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Speaking of that, I've been saying that the Democrats should officially retire the term Republican Party. Hold press conferences, release press releases, etc. the Republican Party abandoned it's long held principals, and have evolved into the MAGA Party. From now on, all Democratic statements and material will not acknowledge the Republican Party, because they ceased to exist. It is now officially the MAGA Party. And then make all their members adhere to that rule in all statement, interviews, etc. No exceptions, except when discussing history.

It will make the Republicans crazy, and take away their ability to claim that they are the "Party of Lincoln." They are officially the MAGA Party, whether they like it or not.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Well, at least you now know that happens next in the US.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

You're not wrong.

Having read a lot of history on the subject, the hope I do have is in the thousands who resisted the Nazis and Russians in small ways. Most of their names are forgotten (or fake, as is the way with resistance), but their stories survived because many of the people they helped told those stories after the war. Not everyone can be a Schindler or a Winton, but there are going to be more than a few who find a way to help people where needed as things get worse.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

There’s an interesting book on this subject called Hitler’s First Victims by Timothy Ryback. It chronicles how Josef Hartinger risked his career, and even his life, in pursuing justice, suggesting that history might have taken a different course if more Germans had followed his example.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

OP said he was reading the same book a minute after you. In case you are interested in chatting it up with them haha

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (7 children)

I'm currently reading Hitler's First Victims and while I knew Nazism was gaining power in the early 1930's, I didn't actually know that the systemic murder of Jews began this early, nor that anyone in the legal apparatus at the time tried to stop it, so this was heartening in a way even though they didn't ultimately succeed.

There are a lot of parallels with what's happening now under Donald Trump, particularly the intentional destruction of the rule of law, which made the establishment of Dachau and the ~~kidnapping~~ indefinite imprisonment and murder of Jewish political prisoners possible.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

I also recommend In the Garden of Beasts, by Erik Larson. It follows the US ambassador to Germany in the 30s and how he tries to warn his counterparts back home how bad things are getting. Again, many parallels.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Another great book about the actual process of the holocaust is IBM and the Holocaust. Lots of detail about how the victims were targetted and then how IT really made a lot of the horrors possible

Recommended read for anyone curious about the logistics.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Been thinking about that one with the AI fun they're building now. If you think IBM helped the holocaust, just wait till you see what ChatGPT can do. It's going to be like thought police.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

I'll add it to my list. Thank you for the recommendation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Very interesting indeed.

The beginnings are also obvious in germany and the EU, AGAIN.

We've already built concentration camps inside germany and on the eu borders. Immigrants are being hunted by the regular police and also militias. One was executed by german police recently. 4 shots in the back, one to the head.

But people are drowning in propaganda media that tells them its all fine and we must go to war with russia now and immigrants are evil.

The most telling thing is how they try to frame palestine solidarity as "imported antisemitism" which is so racist it baffles me.

Its insane. Even the worker party (spd) and the former climate party (the greens) are pushing war propaganda and xenophobia. Its historically so close to what happened back then, bar the focus on jews, fortunately.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (4 children)

They have already awarded a $250 million contract to build a 30,000 bed facility in Guantanamo.

For context Guantanamo currently houses up to about 250 people. The average maximum security prison hold 800-1200. The largest prison, in Angola, LA, holds about 8300. So the new prison in Guantanamo will hold almost 4 times as many as the largest prison, which is already several times larger than average.

This facility will be on foreign soil (Cuba!), far away from the prying eyes of the media, the courts, lawyers, protesters, family, etc. who do they plan on putting there, and for what crimes?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

One was executed by german police recently. 4 shots in the back, one to the head.

You mean the guy with the knife that badly injured someone before getting shot? You call that execution?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Oh my god. You're not buying that the cop "shot the guy 4 times in the back in self defense" bullshit, are you?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

What is the relation between this and the invasion of Ukraine by Russia?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

What do you mean? I'm talking about war propaganda. That has zero to do with ukraine.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I will always be hated for this but fascism is necessary.

The chode you are asking said this a week ago.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Great. Of course I said this completely free of context. It was sarcasm, you jerk.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I didn’t see that in their history?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Of course you didnt because I said this in a sarcastic comment somewhere. As in, capitalism needs fascism as its whip.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Fuck Putin and his war, but you took that person's quote out of context. They said that fascism is an integral part of capitalism, not that it's great. Just that it makes systemic sense for fascism to crop up under capitalism. Maybe I'm misreading it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

You're absolutely right. The person is trying to character assassinate me. They're either really misunderstanding what I'm talking about or deliberately trying to smear me.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I will always be hated for this but fascism is necessary. It is the whip of the owning class. As long as you have capitalism, you have fascism.

In more detail if you wish:

Normal society: Person make chair, person sell chair, person eat

Thats the "natural" way of things.

Capitalism:Person make chair, person get tiny cut of chair because [mArKeTiNg cOsT, responsibility, land ownership and other bogus excuses], person eat less, capitalist eat more.

People dont really accept this because it is not natural or fair. Therefore you need a couple of things, depending on the stage of capitalism:

the carrot (you will have your own house! you will buy cool things! you can be rich!)

the veil (propaganda, telling you why it is the only thing that works, why you just need to comply, because compliance will be rewarded...)

the stick (a militarized police force that will shoot you if you dont comply)

As you can see, all western states are currently going down the "military disguised as police" route. Why do you think that is? It is because the capitalists want more yachts.

And after 100 years of propaganda, we actually believe there never has been a better system.

Have a great day.

That’s the full quote, I really don't see how you’re reading this and thinking they support fascism (or capitalism, for that matter). It’s not great phrasing, but it looks to be an indictment of capitalism on the grounds that it relies on deceiving and abusing the populace.

Was it edited or can you explain how you’re interpreting it?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Thank you for coming to my aid. That person really has it out for me it seems.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Can you expand a little? The discussion in said thread was capitalist critique, no?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Sadly, yes.

I think here in the States we're a 9/11-style event away from happily embracing totalitarianism.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

We are an ICE agent getting a blister from his shitty aftermarket grip while pointing his weapon at protestors away from embracing totalitarianism.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

One of the most well know and influential anti Nazi songs of the era The Peat Bog Soldiers was composed in 1933 as well.

Even years before the outbreak of war in Europe these camps had already had a storied history.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I'm an old musician, who remembers the role that musicians played in the Vietnam War Resistance. The current population music industry would never allow their artists to be so openly resistant today.

So I've been looking for music to revive, and create a soundtrack for the growing resistance. This might be a good one.

It's also time to revive all those good old protest folk songs by Woody Guthrie and the like. Songs like This Land Is Your Land.

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