this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024

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politics

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506

Don’t Fall for the Third-Party Trick (web.archive.org)

submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

448 comments fedilink hide all child comments

"Progressives should not make the same mistake that Ernst Thälmann made in 1932. The leader of the German Communist Party, Thälmann saw mainstream liberals as his enemies, and so the center and left never joined forces against the Nazis. Thälmann famously said that 'some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest' of social democrats, whom he sneeringly called 'social fascists.'

After Adolf Hitler gained power in 1933, Thälmann was arrested. He was shot on Hitler’s orders in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1944."

(page 10) 20 comments

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

I see a ton of this here, especially from a certain instance.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (8 children)

We desperately need more real third-party participation in politics, but voting for third parties in presidential elections doesn’t make that happen—the US voting system isn’t a business that adapts its products to meet consumer demand.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

in presidential elections

Or in House of Representative, or Senate. The real power is in Congress.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 3 months ago

Yup. We need ranked choice balloting first.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Lemmy users be like "bUt I cAnT VoTe FoR gEnOcIdE"

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[–] [email protected] 128 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Plus we keep using this outdated first-past-the-post voting system in the 21st century.

[–] [email protected] 69 points 3 months ago (12 children)

Yup. We need ranked choice/instant runoff voting first.

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[+] [email protected] -35 points 3 months ago (10 children)

One, I don't know any progressive that is planning on voting for RFK.

Two, can we stop this lie? Only a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

Only a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.

The no vote protesters in 2016 sure helped Trump.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

lol. That makes no sense.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (20 children)

Unfortunately, that's not true. The Trump base is not as fractured as the Democratic base is. Voting 3rd party, statistically, ONLY helps Trump.

A 3rd party will not, cannot win a Presidential election, so Progressives who would otherwise vote for Harris, but instead back a loser like Stein or West are removing their vote from Harris, which has the exact same effect as +1 for Trump.

See here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/11/robert-reich-third-party-candidates-will-help-trump-win

"Just 44,000 votes out of more than 10m cast in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin – less than half of 1% – were the difference between the Biden presidency and a tie in the electoral college that would have thrown the election to the House of Representatives, and hence to Trump.

If candidates from No Labels, the Green party and the People’s party peel off just 15% of the anti-Trump vote from Biden, and Trump’s base stays with him, Trump would win all five swing states comfortably and return to the Oval Office."

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

A vote not for Harris is one less vote for her too. Not voting for anyone and then waking up getting the person you didn't want winning should not get a Pikachu face. That single vote won't matter statistically, but it's the mindset that if lots of people think the same way, and they do, then it will matter.

It's okay to vote thinking, ugh, fine...I'll vote Democrat even though I hate the choices. If everyone thinking that way votes, we'll have a left wing sweep. That would be a refreshing change of pace...then we can put pressure on those reps who listen to people to make the hard changes that right now always get opposed because of party.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I mean unless you are intentionally being obtuse I feel like you know damn well what people mean when they say "A vote for X is a vote for Trump". It's not a coincidence that so many Republican allies and organizations are promoting and pumping up 3rd party candidates to run in various swing states and pull votes away from Harris, this isn't a new tactic and historically has absolutely changed elections.