this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
121 points (95.5% liked)

Privacy

31833 readers
112 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

Chat rooms

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I'm following several privacy focused communities. Mostly as lurker but in few I'm more active. Every time I see a posts like "how to be more private", I wonder about the reasons behind those questions. What's the reason you want to remain private (don't confuse it with being anonymous)? Could you elaborate on your reasons?

Let me start.

I worked (and still working) in a highly regulated industry as a software/devops engineer. I've been working with banks, insurance companies, global online payment companies, major credit card vendors, few global corporations. I have seen how data is gathered and (mis)used. Every time someone tells me "I'm sorry but the system..." I know it's the data gathered by the "system" and my profile created based on that data was the reason for "but". This is why I care about the privacy, to prevent companies from taking advantage of my current situation and charge me more.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Privacy is a foundational right. Without it inviduals suffer from the imbalanced power dynamic of the states resources.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Because without privacy you can't be a proper human being. You need privacy in order to have the safe space to develop, to dare try, to explore without the constant judgement of others. If you can't be a proper human being, can you genuinely have democracy?

It's both a per-requisite for humanity and what the political system that is often considered as the most just.

That's why I care.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Traditionally, people like myself get killed due to bad opsec.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago

Similar to you, but I also hate the advertising industry with a burning passion and want to deprive them of any and all data possible.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I care about privacy for the same reason you do. Actually I don't care about my personal privacy bacause I've always been careful to not share too much with big tech companies, but I refuse to use products from amazon, meta, alphabet, apple, or microsoft (outside of work hardware/software) because of how they abuse their position of power over the poor.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I don't think society on a local, national, or world level is past persecution for stupid reasons, and I fall into a number of categories that certain people might go after me for if they got into power. I want to make that difficult for them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I don't like being misinterpreted.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Similar to your experience, I've seen several large governments and organizations mishandle or mismanage user data by accident or on purpose many times with little or no recompense. If nobody can do it right they should either make it all publicly transparent for everyone or not store it at all.

Misinformation, not using accounts or accounts with incorrect information, multiple accounts, etc counter ops seem prudent at this point as the information system and monitoring apparatus of some of the most powerful governments and corporations in human history remains largely unchecked.

Privacy is an important right to protect and value because of the damage that can and will be done when groups hold personal information (financial, medical, behavior patterns, etc) and either sell it without explicit consent or leak it because they have no expectation of risk or loss if they don't protect it.

Tl;Dr The oldest rules of the Internet are don't believe everything you read and don't dox yourself.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It all kinda boils down to the Cambridge Analytica scandal for me. Harvesting people's locations and data, accessing and logging our daily lives is what facilitates mass manipulation of the public's opinion, therefore distorting their view of the world and killing freedom of thought. GAFAM and others are specialists in controlling their users. I ultimately don't want to be profiled, controlled and/or rail-roaded in any aspect of my life.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Strangely enough, like the wikileaks scandal... Most people are forgetful. But not on purpose...

That's how good they are in manipulating people's mind.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Because in real life I don't like people looking over my shoulder at everything I do and digital snooping is the same (or worse).

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

The same reason I care about a working democracy. You can't have one without the other.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago

Same reason I shit with the door closed; I've got nothing to hide, but it's none of your business regardless.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Do you people sniff into your stuffs? No. So why do you allow companies to make profit on?

And we need the anonymous part too.

Privacy means hiding our legitimate stuffs to others than could spy on. In this way, privacy is a big family that needs anonymity and security to work well

EDIT : Anonymity and security are not different than privacy, they are a way to achieve it

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.

From Cardinal Richelieu

Combine this with the fact that entities which have access to our data rarely have our best interest in heart. Governments change, the political climate changes, and people change. What’s honest and just today may not be next decade.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

Also, people change over time, and more and more of our lives are ending up online earlier and earlier.

Do you really want some stupid "hot take" you were passionate about as a teenager effecting how someone sees you a decade or more down the line?

Everyone deserves the right to change their mind and not have old beliefs hang around their neck forever.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

It's a pillar of democracy to protect the autonomy of the people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

If you have ever had a psycho (or two) stalk you online and/or in the real world, you will understand why privacy and anonymity is important.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

If you have time for an answer in audio form the CBC has some ideas.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

Although it is physically impossible for the single guard to observe all the inmates' cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched motivates them to act as though they are all being watched at all times.

that's not a world i want to live in...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Too late. If you're in the US, it is officially known that the feds already can record roughly half of all national internet traffic. AT&T room something or other.

The current saving grace is that the amount of data generated over time is outpacing increases in the ability to store and analyze it all. God forbid that ever changes.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's curious that you claim privacy and anonymity are clearly differentiable but didn't bother to define either of them. Is your claim accurate? We have no idea, because we don't know what you're talking about.

George Orwell, Philip K. Dick, and Corey Doctorow already covered the basics, and two of those authors did so decades ago. Why are you asking this question now? What is it that you want to hear that they didn't already say? Or are you asking us whether we've read those authors?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Privacy means that no one can see your data, and only you can decide who can see it. Anonymity means that everyone can see your data but no one can match you with the data.

As for the question, yes, I would more than happy when people could understand the risk of giving up the privacy. But I'm afraid that not many people would understand the message carried by those books.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Anonymity is impossible with enough data to put together a profile.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

This assumes all of the data fed into the model is accurate and not including noise like misinformation

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Let's flip this question. Why do you think an organisation should get my data?

Are they reputable? Are they secure? Are they domiciled in my country and follow the laws of my country?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

In a perfect world, data collected by companies would be used to improve user experience. But we don't live a perfect world and nowadays if a company doesn't provide yearly income from investment it goes under. And to keep the numbers up, companies screw its users.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Improve user experience?

I don't give a flying fuck if a web page loads .5 seconds faster.

What u care about is an interface that works, has labels instead of symbols, that doesn't change every month trying to be more minimalist.

A bank website doesn't need my browser history or my charges to Amex or what pets I have or what car I drive or the color of my bedroom. But they want all that and a mobile phone number to tie it all up with a common index. VoIP numbers are refused because they change too often.

That's what pisses me off

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

To me it's much more of an ethical concern than a practical concern. Digital privacy is a human right (privacy is listed under Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). The only immediate ways in which I can uphold this right and contribute to a fairer society is through exercising my right to vote and making ethically superior choices as a consumer. So for me, it's less about avoiding the government or big tech for practical reasons like surveillance and scams driven by data breaches (though of course these are still valid concerns for many) and more about supporting those who I believe are doing the right thing (or are at least an improvement).

If we don't support the better alternatives then they will never grow enough to achieve mainstream success and challenge the current establishment. I know some people here hate Proton, but that is a great example of a privacy-focused tech company which has grown significantly because of consumer support - to the point where it has a full suite of products that do a much better job of competing with heavyweights like Google than a tiny, unsupported startup would have had. A company like that might not even have survived without its early adopters, and then the next one to come along would be even less likely to receive investment in the early stages due to the history of failure within the sector. To me, being privacy conscious is all about being part of a positive movement; supporting people and companies that are doing the right thing and refusing to accept problematic behaviours and practices I see in the world.

I know for some people, particularly minorities, privacy is a real world concern and I fully acknowledge that but I think sometimes we do ourselves a disservice by trying to sell it to everyone in such a scary way. Humans are not very good at perceiving or responding to threat until there is actual undisputable evidence of it in their immediate surroundings. So when you tell these people that they'll lose all their money to scammers or that their government is going to unjustly target them they don't actually believe you or take you seriously. They think you are insane. The better sell, I think, is to show people that this is a positive movement and worldwide community that they can be a part of.

EDIT: I was going to add this yesterday but forgot. I don't know if anyone here has seen The Social Dilemma - the big reason that documentary went viral was not just because it gave a very detailed and scary overview of all the problems with surveillance capitalism and the attention economy, but also because it finished on quite an optimistic note. They told viewers "we know this is all really scary for you but we have smart people working tirelessly to change things and build a movement that we want you to be a part of". It left people feeling engaged, like they still had some level of agency over the situation instead of paralysed with fear and just totally abandoning all hope.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago (1 children)
  • Feeling clean
  • Not being exploited
  • Minimalism
  • Less power drain
  • Less data sent
  • Freedom
  • Everything works better and faster
  • I hate spying because they can
  • To be honest also because most people don't care

The only con is convenience.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I hate that most people don't want to care for convient's sake.. "You're only making your life harder for yourself". I simply want to be in control, not the corpos.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

i don't want anyone i work with to be able to find out what kind of porn i'm into

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I work in the public health sector.

And I am trans. Need more reasons?

load more comments
view more: next ›