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Ok, so they're performance focused. Who is making cars that are built for the most engaging driving experience? Are those "drive a slow car fast" type cars all already built?
i am not ordering cars from them anymore /s
yeah me too. I was like, about to and stuff.
Plenty of brands stopped offering manual variants of plenty of models. IIRC BMW practically begged people to stop asking for manual variants, saying it just does not make any sense to mess with the supply chain and the production line and the car itself just to put an objectively inferior transmission inside it.
On the contrary, it makes no sense to put automatic transmissions into sports cars.
On public roads, you're not gonna be able to drive them as fast as they can go anyway.
An automatic transmission may offer better performance, but you have 5x as much of that as you can use already.
What a manual transmission offers is the feeling of being in full control.
It's simply more fun and engaging to drive.
But apparently, cars aren't made to offer the best experience possible anymore.
Auto transmissions are now cheaper and anyone can drive them, so the potential market is bigger. And that's what matters, even up to the Lamborghini price bracket.
What a manual transmission offers is the feeling of being in full control.
Being able to maintain a gear selection and being able to directly control the clutch are huge advantages in specific conditions like extreme weather or some off road terrain. A surprise shift during a curve in icy conditions makes me nervous every time for example.
If an automatic system allowed for direct control of gears and the ability to disengage and reingage the clutch on demand it would cover those scenarios.
My car has a gear shifter setting and it's automatic, no clutch tho.
Same! I love my auto-standard combo! It’s fun to play with when I want, and not insanely annoying in traffic.
The company car I get to use has an automatic transmission that drives me mad.
Its shift points are always right above the speeds I usually drive at.
It shifts into third at 40 km/h which is too fast for a speed limit of 30.
It shifts into fourth at 60 which is too fast for a speed limit of 50.
And it shifts into fifth at 80 which is too fast for a speed limit of 70.
So you're constantly driving with too high rpm's, burning more fuel and making more noise than you'd have to.
It has a "manual mode" where you can shift by moving the stick up or down. But it doesn't actually do anything. If you shift at a different point than the automatic would, you just get a "shift denied" message on the dash, even though the rpm's wouldn't even get close to being too low.
And when you push the gas pedal just a bit more than half, it shifts down and the engine roars, but it doesn't actually achieve much cause the car doesn't have much power.
Internal combustion engines are most fuel-efficient at low rpm's (<1500) and full throttle, and that's impossible to do with this transmission. So it only gets 34mpg (7l/100km), and it's a Diesel hatchback. My old manual car also had a 34mpg rating, but the way I drive I could get 47 (5l/100km), and it had a gasoline engine.
What's the torque band? Driving a diesel, it's really high compression and torque is applied low in the rpm range. Gasoline is a lot lower compression and might be twice the rpm to get the most torque. Outside of that torque band and your using more fuel for less movement.
The M series cars still have manual as an option, although IIRC the automatic versions have better performance. They're a bit outside of my price range, so I'm trying to keep my old manual 328i running as long as I can.
I mean, the reality is that manual/standard transmissions are just fuel and effort inefficient at this point. There was a window where automatics were inefficient enough to make learning stick worth it but that is LONG gone. And CVTs, in apples for apples comparisons, kind of are the best of both worlds.
Still pretty shocked since I don't think anyone buys a ferrari or a lambo because they want a reasonable high quality car and nothing screams "I am compensating" like wrapping your hands around that shaft while you drive but... if the goal is performance?
CVTs, in apples for apples comparisons, kind of are the best of both worlds.
In theory they have advantages, but in practice they're probably the worst kind of transmission you could get right now unless you're driving a low-horsepower econo-car. (Even then I don't think I'd want one; I'd rather pay a little more for gas than risk an expensive early transmission failure.)
I just find manuals more fun and engaging to drive. Even an 80hp shitbox is better with a manual.
Fair enough. I usually take ten or twenty minutes of "So... let me just crank the radio up so you can't hear me mangling your transmission" in a parking lot/empty roads to "remember" how to drive stick, but it is a much more active style of driving.
But that has nothing to do with safety. And, arguably, is considerably worse for it since it is less time focused on the road and, more importantly, the sides of the road. It is basically the opposite of the "autopilot" versions of Adaptive Cruise Control where it increases distractions and leads to less attentive drivers for whatever insanity other people are going to do.
If I were buying a super fast fun car to use at the track or whatever? Well, I would want paddle shifters because the real vroom vrooms have those. But a stick shift and a clutch are a close second.
But for something that I am going to drive in rush hour traffic or do a 10 hour drive to my favorite climbing spot every couple weeks?
Ferrari does it because they openly disdain their own customers. You will get performance the Ferrari way and you will like it. You're lucky we even allow you to buy it. We put in the finest dual clutch transmission available because that's the highest performance.
Lamborghini does it because they're Audi's with sharp edges. Audi is a company that advertises that its top trim can fit a set of golf clubs in back. They don't want to bother their golf customers with a third pedal.
Half of them have had hip replacements, and half of them were on the left side, so they can't work the clutch.
Their target demographic doesn't care about manuals. Their buyers either are most likely buying a status symbol and the ones who are actually looking to drive them are looking to emulate the F1 / IMSA experience where absolutely none of those cars are manuals
The main reasons you wanted a manual back in the day was price - because automatic transmissions were expensive - and fuel economy - because they were less efficient. (To a lesser extent reliability, because automatics were newer and they hadn't worked out the kinks yet.)
However, the price of automatics fell, and the dual-clutch gearboxes with 7-10 gears are even more efficient because they keep the car in the most efficient rev range. Same goes for CVTs. And the dual-clutches shift faster than you ever could, so they're better for sports cars, which is why F1 switched to them a long time ago.
So it makes sense that manuals are falling out of favor because they're objectively worse in all respects compared to the transmissions available today. However, subjectively they're a lot more fun which is why I have a manual transmission car I plan on keeping on the road well into the 2050s.
Fun and more control. I too am in the I bought a manual club. Twice my truck and my wife's car are both manual transmissions with a clutch (third pedal).
I guess some of the new dual clutch transmissions are considered manual 🤔
I love manuals but while they do give more control than a basic automatic transmission, I don't think I could argue that they give more control than an automatic with paddle shifters.
Neutral downhill...
I didn't know what a dual clutch transmission was and found this excellent video while searching. Figured I would share it here. Pretty awesome! You get the direct gearing benifits of a manual with the shifting ease and speed of an automatic.