this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

It still uses the TPM by default, instead of requireing a passphrase to be typed in on boot to unlock the keys. This still makes it an insecure mess.

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=wTl4vEednkQ

https://github.com/stacksmashing/pico-tpmsniffer

https://github.com/stacksmashing/LPCClocklessAnalyzer

Microsoft NEVER cares about your security. They just do the absolute bare minimum for compliance with stupid standards, and then advertise it as some crazy security improvement. Corporations lie to you all the time. If you want some actual security, you need to start using FOSS software. Most importantly a FOSS, Linux-based OS, and set it up with LUKS passphrase-based encryption.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

This one is especially fun on windows 11 home. At least it was some time ago on some machine i worked on. Since home doesn't have the bitlocker settings fully you cannot disable bitlocker encryption. It would also auto enable sometimes even if you don't have a microsoft account, which means it doesn't back the key up anywhere. Not sure it does that anymore, i hope not, but i expect a lot of people to lose their data to this crap in the future.

In either case at least i find that full disk encryption on most machines is just overkill as it only really protects in the scenario the device is stolen and someone tries to pull data off of it that way. But in the vast majority of cases when people get their data stolen its done with malware, which disk encryption does /nothing/ to prevent.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

when it automatically enables on win11 home, it doesn't actually "enable" until you do sign-in to windows with a microsoft account so it has a place to stash the recovery key.

and, i have not had any difficulty turning the encryption off on win11 home systems.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

In the scenario in which your computer is forgotten or stolen, it would offer some comfort knowing that the data on the computer is not accessible.

We have a "policy" in our household that everything that has personal data should be encrypted. That is just for cases in which we lose the device or it gets stolen. That makes it a purely financial loss, and not as invasive / uncomfortable.

But on the other hand my household are not average users. So it might not work well for other people.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

This is good but they need better guidance to nontechnical users how to backup their keys. Cloud backup now that they are trying to make local accounts illegal I suppose.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

This has been happening for a lot longer than just Windows 11.

Several people I've spoken to, who have purchased OEM computers from the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo and others, did not know that bitlocker FDE was enabled, and they were not aware that they needed to back up their recovery key.

On at least one occasion, this caused someone to lose the contents of their laptop when Windows failed to finish booting into the OS. The drive was fine as far as I could tell, but the content on the drive would not complete the boot up sequence and would bsod/boot loop the system, so data retrieval was not possible without the recovery key, which they did not have. That was a Windows 10 Dell system from 2020 or so.

My opinion is that FDE is a good thing.

My advice is if you have FDE enabled, backup your recovery keys. It's easy, but it won't directly save to a file on the filesystem that's locked by the key to which the recovery key applies. The easiest workaround is to "print" it, then use the built in Microsoft print to PDF, then dump it wherever you want. Afterwards, put it somewhere safe. Doesn't matter where, but anywhere that isn't the encrypted drive. Maybe Google drive, maybe a USB flash drive, maybe email it to yourself. I dunno, just somewhere you can retrieve if that system isn't working.

When you're done doing that, go check the same on your parents computers, friends, brothers and sisters..... If they're someone you care about, and they have a windows computer, check. Get those recovery keys backed up somewhere.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think this is a step in the right direction. Everyone can lose a portable device or it can get stolen, so protecting the potentially sensitive data is important.

I think what people are complaining about is not full-disk encryption itself, but the fact that people are not used to being responsible for their cryptographic keys.

I think we should educate people regarding this responsibility. We did it with regular keys we use to unlock our homes.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Are they even saved by default in an MS account? Because if I'd link one, I would expect them to at least prompt me

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I believe you can find them in the first Microsoft account that you registered to that windows install.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

happened to my ma's computer, her microsoft account+key was not saved in there so she just. lost all her important work documents. also, what of the people who don't have another device to look up the website where the key is stored?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

Well, most people do have a secondary device, and of those that don't, in most cases they can just use someone else's.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do the average Windows user really need BitLocker device encryption? They don't. The only users who need BitLocker are business' and government workers.

Also 99% of Windows users are going to get locked out of their computers.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Everyone needs drive encryption.

And no, 99% of Windows users aren't going to get locked out.

99% of Windows boxes are business boxes, which already are encrypted (and if they aren't, that's some bad IT).

This really only affects Home users, who don't enable encryption because they don't know any better. I have no doubt we'll see quite a few people have issues because they lose their key and can't recover their data. This is why MS should provide clear directions during setup about storing the key. Instead they're going to keep it in people's OneDrive/365 account. Such a bad idea. Now I've gotta write documentation for friends and family about what NOT to do during setup.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

This is why MS should provide clear directions during setup about storing the key.

Now I’ve gotta write documentation for friends and family about what NOT to do during setup.

Okay. You need to write documentation for your friends and family, but Microsoft have clear directions.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can't wait to get a million tickets about this. -_-

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

If you're getting tickets, I assume you mean at work? What's a business doing running Home and no Domain? This isn't an issue on machines joined to a domain.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Rofl.

The vast majority of small business do run on Home have no clue wtf a domain is. Probably share files via google drive rather than a file server.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

I work at an MSP, so we have clients who refuse to pay money to have good tech. Plenty of them have no domain, use Home, and just cheap out and then get mad when they have constant issues. We try to tell them to buy better shit, but they don't wanna hear it. 🤷‍♀️

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