One cauld rightfully argue "determination" and "predetermination" are wildly different concepts. The comic is wrong on this. But let's go page 72 anyway
this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
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Would be nice if there was a hidden ending on page 57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UebSfjmQNvs - Kurzgesagt - Lemmings will reee optimistic greenwashing.
Can Free Will be Saved in a Deterministic Universe? PBS Space Time - And it's counter argument page https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2020/11/15/free-will-video/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/free-will-is-only-an-illusion-if-you-are-too/ - I'm glad to the coincidence regarding see my semantics point regarding 'Free will' being a somewhat outdated term being a key point in this article.
Your mind is a computer attempting to optimally fulfill several prerogatives which are determined primarily through evolutionary pressures. It is free to do this in the way it sees best and is free to adapt as the environment in which it operates changes, in the sense that it is not forced to override it's internal decisions and come to a different conclusion regarding how to act. I consider this to be free will. You may disagree, but that would be haggling over definitions, rather than facts.
Crucially, this definition is true regardless of whether the universe's course is predetermined or not. I personally don't think it is, because a good chunk of the universe is random and I find it hard to believe that that randomness was predetermined.
If we're to rely on facts and facts only, I'll argue its internal decision making is itself clearly determined by several factors, most if not all of them being determined causally.
I'm quite sure this addition erases the mere idea "free(dom)" and "free will", which would somehow escape universal determinism, hence creating a special case in the laws of causality for humanity only.
Edit : changed phrasing because I answered after reading your first paragraph. Then I read the second one.
At no point did I say that humanity is exempt.
I guess you could say I'm a compatabilist.
By pushing the idea that the humain brain is capable of "free" decision making to adapt to its environment without being forced by external factors it seemed to me that it implied an exception, or, otherwise, you'd be forced to extend that hypothesis to all living beings, and causality would surely take offense ?
I'm answering, but I see what you mean, and I generally agree with it. I just tend to think the idea of free orientation/action is both dangerous and the reason of a lot of human suffering. I'm also a compatabilist, but I another way I suppose.
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So those neuroscientists managed to disprove quantum physics?
Robert Sapolsky's books are challenging but worthwhile reads.
I didn't know Fallout 4 had a graphic novel!
Unless we have a way to find out what that predetermined future is, it's irrelevant and you should proceed as if it isn't a thing.
So you're saying turn to page 72.
If you like. You can also be a rebel and turn to a different page or stop reading the book altogether.
But then I'll never know how it ends!
Then you can follow the path created by the author! This kind of reminds me of The Stanley Parable.
"When Stanley came to a set of two open doors, he entered the door on his left."
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Source?
The deterministic universe may one day force you to visit your local library.
I am okay with that, although not sure if I would have another opinion under different circumstances
And yet I can speak about my consciousness, and therefore deliver information to you based on an experience which can't be physically observed or quantified.
Perhaps the universe is naught but a comforting illusion.
ChatGPT can speak about its consciousness too, but there's no reason to believe it actually is conscious. It's just very good at writing text that imitates text written by beings that believe they're conscious. It's difficult to understand how ChatGPT generates that text. But, if anybody were sufficiently interested, it would be possible to trace the entire process, since it's just computers processing data.
Also, MRIs can observe the brain as it does things. Currently it's a pretty blunt tool and can only guess at what someone is thinking, but there's no reason to assume that a much more advanced version won't be capable of observing and quantifying the actions of every neuron in real time.
that doesn't necessarily mean it is possible though. just to be clear
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deliver information to you based on an experience which can’t be physically observed or quantified
I'm not sure if "Black Box of electro-chemistry" is necessarily the same as "Non-determinism".
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?
higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for
More higher uncertainty of an outside observer predicting the choices you will make.
The inability to anticipate another person's actions suggests they may have internal agency. Compared to say, a rock, which you can shove and confidently predict where it will stop moving, a human is far more difficult to judge.
I don’t understand what you are getting at. You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.
You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.
If the fly lacks agency, you would be able to predict its movement given a sufficiently accurate set of information.
If it has agency, you could not.
It's difficult to predict the path of a leaf floating in the wind, but I don't think anybody would say a leaf has agency.
It’s difficult to predict the path of a leaf floating in the wind
Orders of magnitude less difficult, as the leaf can't glean your intent and respond accordingly.
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You missed the point while drawing your circular argument.
Take what you said and replace fly with human. Wait here I’ll do it for you:
If a human lacks agency, you would be able to predict its movement given a sufficiently accurate set of information.
If it has agency, you could not.
Now tell me how you will acquire a sufficiently accurate set of information about a human and its environment to test your hypothesis.
Now tell me how you will acquire a sufficiently accurate set of information about a human and its environment to test your hypothesis.
You can't. That's a significant problem of identifying the existence or absence of "Free Will".
Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn't necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting
🫡
In that case, carry on.
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You could be a Boltzmann Brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
Of course, from my perspective, I would be the Boltzmann brain and you would be my dream.
That's a clever joke. I however have radical freedom!
Chooses to put the book outside
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But the book only has 71 pages
Pg 72 is in volume 2.
If you are interested, buy volume 2. Else, buy volume 2.
Hell yeah how good is determinism
That is yet to be determined.