this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
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And yet I can speak about my consciousness, and therefore deliver information to you based on an experience which can't be physically observed or quantified.
Perhaps the universe is naught but a comforting illusion.
ChatGPT can speak about its consciousness too, but there's no reason to believe it actually is conscious. It's just very good at writing text that imitates text written by beings that believe they're conscious. It's difficult to understand how ChatGPT generates that text. But, if anybody were sufficiently interested, it would be possible to trace the entire process, since it's just computers processing data.
Also, MRIs can observe the brain as it does things. Currently it's a pretty blunt tool and can only guess at what someone is thinking, but there's no reason to assume that a much more advanced version won't be capable of observing and quantifying the actions of every neuron in real time.
that doesn't necessarily mean it is possible though. just to be clear
Mean what's possible?
I'm not sure if "Black Box of electro-chemistry" is necessarily the same as "Non-determinism".
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?
More higher uncertainty of an outside observer predicting the choices you will make.
The inability to anticipate another person's actions suggests they may have internal agency. Compared to say, a rock, which you can shove and confidently predict where it will stop moving, a human is far more difficult to judge.
I don’t understand what you are getting at. You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.
If the fly lacks agency, you would be able to predict its movement given a sufficiently accurate set of information.
If it has agency, you could not.
It's difficult to predict the path of a leaf floating in the wind, but I don't think anybody would say a leaf has agency.
Orders of magnitude less difficult, as the leaf can't glean your intent and respond accordingly.
Can you prove that?
That the movement of a leaf in the wind is less complex than the electro-chemical processes of a human brain?
With enough time and math, certainly.
The point is, you were using the point that a fly's movements were complex to argue that a fly has internal agency. But, a leaf floating on the wind also has complex movements. To me, that makes it seem like complex movements aren't a solid indicator of agency.
If you're now talking about dissection, that's a whole different argument.
A fly has the ability to observe its surroundings and adjust its position in response to outside stimulus. A leaf does not. That, alone, adds a dimension of activity that the first possesses and the second doesn't.
You can argue that the fly is still a deterministic agent, but the ability to observe and respond adds a dimension of activity that's more complex than a leaf, which can only move based on the surrounding wind currents.
You missed the point while drawing your circular argument.
Take what you said and replace fly with human. Wait here I’ll do it for you:
Now tell me how you will acquire a sufficiently accurate set of information about a human and its environment to test your hypothesis.
You can't. That's a significant problem of identifying the existence or absence of "Free Will".
Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn't necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭
Neutral monism just looks like "we have to have souls because the science is uncomfortable to me" but for atheists lol
🫡
In that case, carry on.
You could be a Boltzmann Brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
Of course, from my perspective, I would be the Boltzmann brain and you would be my dream.