this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024

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Another post about "in the pale moonlight". Sorry. (startrek.website)

submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

17 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I’m on my umpteenth rewatch of DS9, and I"m in season 6, when it really gets goood. And, as you are all aware (It’s a fake!).

I often listen to TNG or DS9 or VOY as I know many of us do to fall asleep, but once again, I couldn’t close my eyes for “in the pale moonlight”.

I think it's a work of art on its own, but when you bring in the holier than thou morality of the federation, mixed with the horror of seeing all those names on the casualty lists, it really brings Star Trek to its knees - in, as usual, a major crisis of morality: the needs of the few, or the needs of the many?

That question of doing something bad, something that goes against one's morals, and yet will save thousands of lives of people you care about, is quintessential star trek. For me, this is when ST really gets good (and I’m a TNG zealot).

I think that I have wanted to write this on every re-watch and have never managed to do so because I’m a stupid ass dumb fucking idiot. I’m sure that many ST fans have written volumes on this very famous episode, but regardless, it deserves to be brought up over and over again, and should serve as a reminder of how incredible this episode was. This is the shit that makes ST great.

Sisko was out of options. Garak could open alternative options and Sisko asked Garak for what he needed, even if he didn’t realize it at the time. He was angry when he got what he asked for. And then…

“So I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all, I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing. A guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant, so I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.”

Even better, the episode didn’t treat us like children with showing a callback to the beginning of the episode, but I will fall on that sword… From the first scene:

GARAK: It would mean calling in all my favours, Captain. To do what you’re asking would use up every resource I have left on Cardassia. And it may be a very messy, very bloody business. Are you prepared for that?

SISKO: I posted my fourteenth casualty list this morning. I’m already involved in a very messy, very bloody business. And the only way I can see to end it is to bring the Romulans into the war. I am prepared to do whatever it takes to accomplish that goal, but I can’t do it alone. I need help. Now, are you in or out?

GARAK: I’m in.

all 18 comments

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

I don't think it's entirely fair to say Sisko was out of options, is impossible to predict the future, but he saw an opportunity, he took it, and it paid off. In a parallel universe the Romulans discovered the plot and joined the Dominion.

That said I totally agree with you about it being a great example of what makes Star Trek great. The fact that the episodes that get debated decades later are consistently held up as "the best" by the same fans really says a lot.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

And how funny is it that there's an episode of Star Trek named after a Batman movie?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Just as an aside, my dad died horribly this past xmas after 6 months of cancer gradually destroying him and everything he'd worked so hard for. He was one of the most fit people I knew until that. He grew up skiing and was a junior patroller at 15 in colorado. By the time I was born, he was patrolling as a doctor and took me everywhere he could, and when he couldn't, he just told me to go to the patrol shack and wait. Anyways, I was with him for those last 6 months, but I curled up in a ball and did nothing to try to make his doctors do anything or find alternative treatment options like the Mayo clinic. I just curled up in a ball of fear and anxiety and did nothing. I was just paralyzed. My dad would have gone to the ends of the earth for me, and I didn't even try to save him. I don't know how to live with that.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sorry for your loss. Unless you were going to work out a cure for cancer on your own, there was nothing you could’ve done, except just be there. My Dad died about four years ago now after he had a massive stroke, he was in hospice for about a week or two. And all I could do the whole time was just sit there and watch my Dad die in front of me. Him physically dying was a release more than anything, mentally though I think he had been gone awhile before that. He had had a previous stroke two years earlier and little by little parts of his personality started dying off. By the time his body died, the person I’d known my whole life had already been gone, he was just a shell. It was like watching him die in slow motion, little by little, day by day.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I seriously appreciate your response and your willingness to be vulnerable in sharing your own loss. I am sorry. I'm so deep in sadness that I am having a hard time processing anything.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I didn't fight for him. I didn't even try. When I called his oncology doctor and left a message, I heard back from a nurse and got no information. And further, the nurse said that the doctor doesn't speak with family of patients and wouldn't be calling me back. I should have taken my rage at that obviously fucked response and done something, whether it be forcing him to talk to me, or finding another oncologist. But I didn't. I just receded into myself and did nothing. Every single day I drove to the hospital over and over again, I'd pull over and cry before I got there. But I was so paralyzed by my fear about what was happening that I didn't turn it into action. I just asked for a nicer chair in the hospital room so I could hang out for hours on end with my dad as he died. He would have done everything in his power to help me, and for some reason I was such a scared little shit that I didn't think to become the caretaker of my dad, who was always my caretaker. He needed me and I failed him.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

First of all, I'm very sorry for your loss.

Secondly, you knew he was receiving care from trained experts. And you showed up to be with him, which is a hell of a lot more than some people would be able to do.

In my experience, when it comes to the death of a loved one, there will always - always - be regrets of this nature. You'll always be searching for the thing you could have done differently, or the thing you did "wrong." It takes a long time to get to, "I think I can live with it."

Or, to mix episodes, it is possible commit no mistakes and still lose.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

He also raised me on Star Trek, if that helps bring it back to why I'm here.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

I don't know why I'm sharing this. I am just a piece of shit and sorry for contaminating a good (I hope?) ST thread with my own BS

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I have a similar experience with my dad. However whilst I did nothing, my sister moved heaven and earth to save him. The result was that my dad suffered a very long time, and eventually ended up locked in, unable to communicate, before we eventually pulled the plug. Being locked in was his worst fear. The last conscious communication my dad had with me was him staring into my eyes and shaking his head, unable to speak because of all the pipes down his throat, in his lungs and his stomach. Bags of piss and blood hooked up to his bladder. He wanted to die and we wouldn't let him.

Do not beat yourself up over this. Regret is a terrible thing.

Please don't blame yourself buddy.

As a side note, my dad also got me into star trek.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I'm so sorry. Thank you for taking the time to share and for your kind words.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Scans are showing no signs of contamination, Hobbes. ❤️‍🩹

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sorry for you loss. It sounds like you did excatly what you should. Be there by his side. It is up to the patient, with the doctor to decide what treatment to persue, and sound like your dad was more than capable of that. You were there to support him and give him comfort. You should be proud of how you held on through extremely tough times! And now coming out on the other side, do not be afraid to talk about it. Your feelings are valid.

Hope you heal well my friend! Live long and prosper.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Thank you for your kind words.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I often listen to TNG or DS9 or VOY as I know many of us do to fall asleep

Fuck, I'm not the only on who does this?!?!?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I'm not yucking your yums, but this is the first I've heard of falling asleep to the show itself. The Sleep with me podcast has some absolutely soporific TNG retellings, though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

There are literally dozens of us! Dozens!

(but seriously, I constantly read posts from people about how they need star trek to make them feel ok enough to fall asleep. Or even just the thrum of the Enterprise-D's warp core).