Conservatives are the people outside of the last frame encouraging the cops to step more on the neck region.
liberalism is the capitalist buying a ticket and then equity
this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024
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Most conservatives are the child in the red shirt telling the cops to stomp harder on the child in the purple shirt, because the guy in the blue shirt told them that's who stole their box.
well urss was exactly like the third option, the problem isn't capitalism/communist is lack of functional democracy
Under socialism, the tower belongs to The People, and is used by their representatives in the Party.
Zizek has a joke like that:
in Russia, members of the nomenklatura ride in expensive limousines, while in Yugoslavia, ordinary people themselves ride in limousines through their representatives.
used by their representatives in the Party
Nah, mate. Not the USSR nor Cuba were like this. You simply couldn't find wealth disparities in those countries as you can in modern capitalist ones, not even remotely close.
Socialism doesn't dictate a government structure, there's authoritarian socialism and there's anarchist socialism and there's socialism in-between.
What's ironic about your point is that you're advocating for a literally authoritarian economic system where the owning class dictates what laborers do. You spend most of your waking hours working for a dictator.
Socialism is about making the economy worker owned and giving the workers control over what gets produced and how. That could be via worker cooperatives, it can be via anarchism, it can be via an authoritarian state that (claims to) represent the worker.
Socialism doesn’t dictate a government structure
I disagree! Socialism by definition requires the people to own their own homes and the places where they work, which is difficult in a government not run by the people. Socialism must be democratic, anything else is just red fascism.
it can be via an authoritarian state that (claims to) represent the worker.
I may have been hasty, seems you agree! But I would like to stress that any government which claims to be socialist but makes unions illegal and enforces capitalism and private property shouldn't really get to call itself socialist or communist. They're just state capitalist oligarchies.
I'll give you that. I am leaving room in my definition for anarcho-communism and anarcho-socialism (or even anarcho-syndicalism and other left-anarchist systems) and those don't require a state.
Democracy is a decent enough way to run a state, but anarchists would critique democracy (from the left) by pointing out that it can violently compel people based on the will of the majority, and so consensus building, federation, and mutual aid can replace a democratic state while accomplishing socialism.
Ah, I see! I was only disagreeing with the inclusion of authoritarian socialism, which in my mind is an oxymoron.
Democracy can take many shapes and I would argue anarchy must always be democratic as well, even if it is way more democratic than current systems.
This is american version of capitalism (meaning it is oligarchy, not capitalism).
A fundamental principle of capitalism is competition. In US, lobbying (aka legal bribery) has eliminated competition. So it has changed from capitalism to oligarchy.
Norway is also capitalistic, but everyone is rich there. US could and would have been there if politicians were not sold.
REAL capitalism hasn't been tried it's just a theory those countries aren't really capitalism they just call themselves capitalism.
People like you mock those on the left using similar arguments all the time....
Norway is also capitalistic, but everyone is rich there. It's pretty good here, but not that good.
Wage inequality is way lower here in Norway than in most of the world, but it's unfortunately on the rise, in addition to right wing politics becoming increasingly prevalent. Things are good here because inequality was always low, and therefore unions could "win", unlike in the US where unions were successfully opposed by powerful corporations.
Norway is slowly becoming worse, but way slower than the rest of the world because unions and the welfare state stops foreign and domestic companies from exploiting us as much as they want to.
A fundamental of capitalism is also that you’re paid based on the amount of work not the value
I'm visiting my Norwegian family in October. 4th visit and 2nd to meet family.
Wish I could stay. Maybe I could bribe a cousin to let me live in their basement. 😉
Capitalism and being an oligarchy are neither mutually exclusive nor mutually inclusive, nor is the presence or absence of competition neither mutually inclusive or exclusive of oppression of others for gain. One could argue, though, that capitalism tends to eventually lead to oligarchies and, as the graphic suggests, oppression for gain as these are both strategies to maximize gain and the capitalist operator with the most gain can use that gain to further increase future gain, and so on. This can lead to the systematic selection for oligarchic, oppressive capitalists.
Norway is rich, like many other countries, due to its economic oppression of the global South. While its distribution of that wealth is more equitable than the United States, it still relies on the same system of oppression to accrue disproportionate wealth.
What I am reading from your comment is: Norway is not perfect, therefor the argument you were replying to is invalid or diminished. Might not be what you intended, but that's what it reads like.
I don't think oppression of the global south is a valid criticism of Norway. I do think the things Norway needs to improve upon are largely similar to things the US has to improve upon. Only Norway is miles ahead in many of these key aspects.
Like corruption, most Norwegians want less corruption.
Equity, most Norwegians think there is not enough equity
Healt care and welfare, most Norwegians think people don't get good enough help with low enough friction
Of course there are more points, and some points don't have overlap.
I don't think oppression of the global south is a valid criticism of Norway
You not thinking so doesn't make it less true. Norway engages in unequal exchange every bit as much as the USA.
I really like all of the roundabouts. Even inside the tunnels! Glorious traffic flow. My hometown has a couple. I've begged via letters to the Town management to install new roundabouts instead of 2 pending new traffic light intersections. But, nope. Lights wins the battle. Dumb!
Put bluntly, most of the logic in the argument I'm replying to sounds good but doesn't hold up under scrutiny. It presents two false dichotomies as explanation for issues with capitalism. Hence the first paragraph, explaining why those associations are false.
Then I address Norway in the second paragraph, which is given as an example of "good capitalism".
What I am reading from your comment is: Norway is not perfect, therefor the argument you were replying to is invalid or diminished. Might not be what you intended, but that's what it reads like
I'm not sure how you're getting that. I asked my coworker to give it a read without explaining my thesis and they don't see it either. You don't explain why, so I'm at a loss.
I don't think oppression of the global south is a valid criticism of Norway.
Why not? You again don't explain why, so again I'm unsure what you intend beyond "your writing sucks and you're wrong". Give me some substance I can actually respond to!
I thought I was on upvoteexeggutor for a sec
We live in a society
I get the thought, but capitalism is the fence, the reason people need boxes just to watch the game in the first place.
Curiously in Economics 101 circa 1985, there was a whole section on wealth disparity, featuring a graph with a diagonal line (perfect distribution), and the plotted chart that bowed underneath that line, showing how much extra wealth the rich have over the poor. When the area between those two lines gets too large, it leads to all the shit we hate about capitalism: suffering, regulatory capture, eventually state failure and civil war (followed by famine and pestilence).
The point of the section was don't let this happen. And the state was supposed to do anything necessary to preserve a low disparity, or a pretty even distribution.
And by a pretty even distribution something like the richest people having 100x the average wealth, and the poorest having 1/100 the average wealth, so there's a significant amount of latitude.
These days, the top three richest have more money than the bottom 160 million poorest in the US. So we are well beyond the civil-war and failing state points.
But then the state is failing and civil war may be imminent.
Econ 101 is designed to obfuscate the real issues. Even talking about specific wealth distribution ratios is falling for the misframing of the issues that Econ 101 wants to lead people into with the pie metaphor. In the capitalist firm, the employer holds 100% of the property rights for the produced outputs and liabilities for the used-up inputs while workers qua employees get 0% of that. The entire division of the pie metaphor in Econ 101 is based around hiding this fact
I think your definition of "we" is what's holding this back. They did not have "we" in mind when making precaution.
I guess, then, we're soon going to see if a we emerges, or if the new order is able to dispose of the potential wes one them at a time.
Every time I see equality vs equity I want to draw equality vs equity vs cooperation response, where in equality scenario one person sees match, in equity none and in cooperation all, where one is on shoulders of other and third is on two boxes.
Hey, USA isn't the only capitalist country in the world!
But the most extreme. They literally go to war for capitalism.
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