this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
616 points (98.7% liked)

Technology

61632 readers
3425 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
(page 3) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

In general for me, I think mission critical systems breaks, engine etc should be physically isolated from the infotainment system. Infotainment systems should also prioritize using off the shelf hardware and running stuff like android, also prioritize android auto and apple car play, since these can be updated without automaker input for the most part.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 6 months ago (20 children)

I dream of an open source car. Something simple but reliable, say a legally-distinct 2004 Honda Accord, bog standard, no frills, no detail package options, just A Cheap Car with standardized parts and open source software. It's the only car the company makes, you can buy one for 10k or build your own for 6k out of parts and a couple months worth of weekends, car nerds will fork the software for infinite tuning customization, and it doesn't report your location back to headquarters. Parts are standardized across every car we've ever made so your local parts store will have them in stock. The new model year is the same car as last year, we just built some fresh ones for people to buy new.

I have no way of making this dream a reality. But I dream of it nonetheless. American car culture has gone off the rails, and the number of people I see already driving around old 5-owner Hondas and Toyotas and Buicks tells me that there is definitely a market for a cheap basic car that runs.

load more comments (20 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (3 children)

You don't need a computer in a car, especially an electric one. Sure, you want some electronics, but do you think 1970s milk floats had computers in them. Today's EVs are basically the same thing with better motors and batteries.

Software control should be kept for luxury aspects of the vehicle. Nothing critical.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Software control should be kept for luxury aspects of the vehicle. Nothing critical.

Tesla would disagree, lol. But then again, for the price, the whole car is a luxury.

Go to hell Elon

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Wellllll..... you rip all that computerized shit out, disconnect the ECU out and strap a carburetor on the engine and make the car what it should have been all along, an entirely mechanical machine.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Nothing wrong with ECUs and other electronics as long as it's not designed to fuck you. Computerized regulation of engine processes is a good thing, locking things down and making them unrepairable is bad.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Someone surely tried this on a Tesla by now...

[–] [email protected] 54 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Locked bootloaders should be illegal. Manufacturers should have to provide enough specs that third parties can write code that runs on the hardware.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 125 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Without right to repair, there will be planned obsolescence.

My Citroen EV developed an on board charger fault. It wouldn't charge. The part was a "coded part" which meant it had to specifically programmed with my EV's ID by Citroen at manufacture. It took months to finally be fitted and ready. So basically, not only does the coded parts system make service shit, but also means when the manufacturer is done making the part, the car is dead. You can't swap parts between cars and there is no third party parts. It's meant to be about car theft, but it's very convenient it blocks competition and long product life....

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

If it was a carburetor (which EVs do not have), I'd be okay with a DRM. But boards? Is there an organized crime group that steals EV boards? Next time it will be funking wipers with DRM.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Hopefully self driving cars take over the world and all the idiots get off the road anyway. No one will have to be concerned.

I would hope for public transport and cycle paths but the public have repeatedly shown to be against that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

The public are usually very for that after it’s been implemented. They hate it before, assuming you include people who live outside the area where it’s being built but imagine they might want to some say drive there in “the public”. It’s much more of a mixed bag if you don’t.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Until it needs to be funded. A large part of the public think public transport should be entirely funded from tickets and if it isn't profitable from that it should be shut down and turned into more space for cars.

Where as the true profit of public transport is in other things. E.g. the land valuation around a railway station is way higher than it would be without. The public also seem to be against land value taxes.

The worlds doomed by idiots.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It's not just cars. Anything with electronics (appliances, smarthome devices, healthcare, transportation) that is designed to last more than three years will hit a wall.

The host devices are designed to last 10-15 years, but the electronics will be out-of-date in 3-5 years.

The processor manufacturer will have moved on to new tech and will stop making spare parts. The firmware will only get updated if something really bad happens. Most likely, it'll get abandoned. And some time soon, the software toolchain and libraries will not be available anymore. Let's not think of the devs who will have moved on. Anyone want to make a career fixing up 10-yo software stack? Where's the profit in that for the manufacturer?

So as an end-user, you're stuck with devices that can not be updated and there's still at least 10-20 years of life left on them. Best of luck.

Solution: go analog. Pay extra if you have to. They'll last longer and the ROI and privacy can't be beat.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago (3 children)

The problem isn't analogue Vs digital, or even software controlled or not. It's about the design assuming:

  1. The manufacturer will always exist
  2. The manufacturer should be the only one to maintain the device.
  3. The manufacture will define what the owner will do with the device.

An analogue device can be at fault too. Proprietary parts. Construction techniques which don't allow for dissambly without destroying things. All that stuff.

...but you're right. Buy the items that let you service them, that don't rely on cloud servers and software updates, that use standard parts, etc, etc. Right to repair legislation is good too, but the companies understand purchasing power more. So educate those around you too.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 39 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I've been screaming about this for years and no one listens. My old car will run longer than my new one because I can change the head unit in the old one

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Noone listens because they want people to buy new cars every 10-15 years. Capitalism endgame where companies don't care about what the consumer wants anymore, as long as they make sure consumers don't have choices.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Your family members want that?

No, they don't listen because they don't understand.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Headlines now are now not even now proofread now

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

To be fair, I used the Lemmy auto-generated title. They did fix the title that actually displayed on their website.

But thanks, I fixed the post title

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

It's not a computer if it can't run doom. And I look forward for Linux variants specific to vehicles.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Phones are supported well beyond their average ownership lifetime.

Are they?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

By communities, but not the manufacturer. Custom ROMs is the only way to keep it up to date for long enough for the hardware to become too old to be worth it.

No custom ROM for cars anytime soon.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

There's plenty of custom ROMs for cars from all major manufacturers, you just don't know where to look.Google "ECU remap" or "dpf delete" for an idea. ECU remapping has been done by bold individuals ever since there were programmable ECUs, around 1985.

Apart from engine/drive line tinkering, there are also plenty of third party software that can tinker with body computers for "lifestyle" adjustments.

Is it easy and accessible? No. Because of environmental laws - and vendor lock in - you can't generally and easily dick around with the control software in your car. But it does exist.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago

My hunch is that "average ownership lifetime" for mobile phones is MUCH lower than you or I (or anyone who is careful with their phone) probably expects. There is probably a too-big segment of the market that is trading in yearly for a newer model.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

Supported in the sense that "We will update your device and deliberately slow it, break it, or brick it because fuck you."

[–] [email protected] 70 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I'm disappointed to find this article is mainly about losing premium subscription features that use mobile internet, which I see as little more than expensive spyware. I don't want them in the first place, and although I believe that some people might, it doesn't seem like one of the important issues around car technology or transportation in general.

The promise is a “smartphone on wheels”: a car that automakers can continue to improve well after an owner drives away from a showroom.

I feel a more worthwhile discussion would be about how a long a “smartphone on wheels” will remain useful compared to one that doesn't depend on continually updated software. How much more often will they need to be replaced? How much more will that cost people? How much more waste and pollution will be generated because of shorter car lifetimes? What sort of right-to-repair laws do we need here?

Seems like a missed opportunity.

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›