Now about public enemy no. 1 for car theft being car thieves?
After that, negligent manufacturers.
Nah, let's attack tools instead.
this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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so uhh.. whats a good place to order from?
they're all unavailable to Canadian addresses :p
If a car can be stolen with a battery-powered toy of off-the-shelf electronic parts assembled into a cute box, maybe automakers need to modernize their security.
"California declares new illicit super material called 'porcelain' public enemy No. 1 for car break in crackdown."
So it's just a small radio? Lol, how the fuck are they going to manage this? Even if they went full North Korea you can make a little SDR from e-waste.
There's a chance they'll take the approach they did with guns and just pick an arbitrary collection of specific products. And if they do, it'll be just as much of a a "dog and pony show". You'll still be able to buy and use radios, including ones that can tune to whatever frequency (probably 13.56Mhz).
It's a bunch of antennas. Low GHZ radio, RFID, NFC, Bluetooth. It will also read/write those button-cell keys. There's also GPIO for you to create your own add-on hardware.
I have no clue how they plan on outlawing them, but it's going to be some reactionary knee-jerk law that does more harm than good.
If the concern is car theft, go after the vehicle manufacturers that aren't using rolling codes and properly securing their vehicles.
Other than the one wire connector and the IR, most phones have all the same hardware and much more compute power, there is nothing stopping a rooted phone from doing the same thing. The Flipper is just an easy UI on a cool form factor.
My S5 still works and has an IR blaster.
It sounds like a lot of the thefts work based on the principle of amplifying the fob so it seems close to the car even when it's not. Because all reasonable EM radiation can be amplified, there's no simple way to beat that short of going back to requiring a fob button push, so it's basically convenience vs. security.
They could try fobs that are smart enough to guess whether they're being handled normally when activated, but that will 100% annoy consumers any time they try and do something the software doesn't expect. It could even get as bad as the consumer putting the fob on a flat surface in another vehicle, and gently driving it up to the vehicle they want to move into.
I'm not sure how they're pulling that kind of attack off with a flipper, unless they're relying on the gpio and/or custom firmware
Yeah, flippers are completely irrelevant to the whole problem as far as I can tell, beyond also being a cheap radio.
Shouldn't it be the Ontario Conservatives privatizing service Ontario that's enabling all these thefts?
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has identified an unlikely public enemy No. 1 in his new crackdown on car theft: the Flipper Zero
What a fucking ignorant, dickless, corporate cock-sucking, asshat.
The flipper is no different than any laptop or phone + an SDR, it just has an extra spicy collection of software available by default. Literally anyone can assemble the hardware and software needed to duplicate the functionality of the Flipper for a fraction of the price using off the shelf parts.
I mean, that's typical politician behavior. let's not pretend the other options are different. This is the shit you have to do to get morons to vote for you.
Honestly they just need an enemy to distract from real potential solutions because solutions are hard. They did the same thing with firearms.
What an asshat indeed.
Yeah, they should definitely have targeted vulnerabilities instead. Human skin should not be so easy to pierce with bullets...
Yes, "hacking tools" equate with firearms.
Let's instead declare public enemy number one as the asshat marketers that took away our physical keys and forced us to use poorly secured dongles.
Its really no worse than it was with keys. The flipper zero only works on very cheap, corner cutting simple systems. A lot of cars (and all cars should) use non-repeating codes so a simple interception is useless. That doesn't make them invincible of course.
Those cars would, back in the day, use simple corner cutting keys to be secured. There were quite a few cars back in the day that would have only a very small number of keys meaning there was a mon-trivial chance of you running into a car that you could open that wasn't your own. There are countless stories of people accidentally unlocking and getting into cars that are not there's.
Here's a concrete example, there are only about 5000 different keys for some brands of Toyota. A car thief could get 10keys and try 10cars a day (and remember this would take a minute or 2 and not really look suspicious) and successfully steal a car every 2 months or so. A dongle pretty decisively kills this avenue of attack. But like all things shitty engineering opens up new attacks, although on the whole it's a lot harder to steal a car today than before dongles.
Agreed! It's actually pretty easy to make a car not start - that is in fact the default behavior for a large chunk of metal. ~~The fact they will start given whatever fixed input is incredibly unnecessary.~~
Edit: Apparently they don't? It's in the article. This announcement is just totally misaimed.
Dont all cars still have physical keys (necessary for dead batteries)?
And don't all cars have a switch to turn off wireless keys?
I can most assuredly tell you that that is not the case, my vehicle does have a physical key hidden away in the fob, it however only unlocks the driver side door, that's it.
That's all you need.
Ok cool, I have entered my vehicle with the key alone, there is no possible way to start it without the fob. Save possibly a flipper,
Usually theres a place to insert the fob, then press Start
This works without a battery. Its passive.
Well for me it does not, hell my car doesn't even have a oil or transmission dipstick, they have taken those away and run the info through the infotainment console.
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