It kinda shocks me that the supposed wealthiest country has so many people who don't have this super common technology. Basically everyone I know has had a heat pump where I live for the past 2 decades.
this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2024
238 points (99.2% liked)
News
23296 readers
3381 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I think these will make sense eventually but if most of my electricity in winter comes from gas anyway, is changing where the gas is burned really better?
Yes, on two points. 1) heat pumps are more than 100% efficient in most conditions. Because they are moving heat, rather than generating it, they can add more heat energy to your home than they actually consume. 2) mix of sources. As you said, even if most of your electricity comes from gas plants, that means some can or does come from renewable sources or nuclear. This makes it much easier to transition to even more renewables, since the consumer side doesn't need to change anything as gas plants are phased out. It's future planning with immediate benefits from point 1.
Point 1 can be a bit complex, since in extreme conditions air source heat pumps may rely on resistive heating which is only 100% efficient. Alternatives like ground source HPs don't have that problem, but they are suited to fewer areas.
Thanks. My climate is relatively mild so I don’t think resistance heating will be necessary. Extreme lows could get to the low 20’s but only for brief periods, so I think heat pumps should still work in such conditions?
Our heat pump didn't really kick in the resistive auxiliary heat until temps were well below 0°F, but humidity also plays into that. It wasn't ever running the resistive heat exclusively.
If sized correctly, heat pumps also don't really like setbacks in the winter. Just set the thermostat to whatever and leave it -- don't have it cool down at night and warm back up in the morning.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(7 replies)
We love our heat pump!
We did a DIY install a few years ago. Cost about $4500 in total for a Bosch 18k BTU unit and everything needed to install it.
We got $900 back from the state (WA USA) and $2000 back from the feds. That brought our total out of pocket down to $1600.
We had electric resistive heat and no AC previously. Our heating bill went down by $50/month in the winter. It added maybe $10/month in the summer for air conditioning.
For our area, with mild winters and low electricity costs, it's fucking amazing.
How handy would you say you are? I'm wondering if I could manage to install one. Our heater is very old and hanging on by a thread.
load more comments
(1 replies)
It added maybe $10/month in the summer for air conditioning.
I live in Alabama, and I found that amusing
It sure would be nice if I could have gotten tax benefits.. They had this BS where you had to get it done by a contractor, and you had to use their heatpump that shit would have been $9000 to get $700 back, and 19%. I had it installed for $2300 total.
What happens if you run the heat pump compressor from a gas motor on site, instead of on electricity from a coal powered remote server? That lets you capture what would otherwise be wasted heat, right? That seems best unless your electricity is from renewables.
do the math before you get one. In my area it’ll double or triple my electric bill due to the extremely high price of electricity. I would need to add a lot of insulation to my home to make it worth it. Also, installing solar would be a wiser first step. Of course, even then, with the installation costs, it will take 20-30 years to really see a savings.
Edit: downvote all you want, it doesn’t change the math. I spent 6 months studying heat pumps for my situation, sorry it doesn’t live up to whatever eco-hype you’re huffing. The real issue is mismanaged utility companies with a legally protected monopoly. All I’m suggesting is you learn about your situation before you jump in blind, but apparently that is too offensive of a suggestion for the Lemmy hive mind. If you’re going to downvote, maybe give a counter argument, I’ll give you a math equation in response.
It definitely makes sense to evaluate electricity costs. It's unfortunately expensive to get a heat pump in some places.
Where we live, the Seattle metro area, it was a huge cost savings to get our heat pump.
Crunch the numbers and make sure it makes financial sense.
If you need to add insulation to make switching to a different heat source worth it, then adding that insulation without switching will reduce your current utility bill. It's not like the insulation (or lack ther of) cares how the heat was generated.
load more comments
(2 replies)
There might be federal or state programs that can help you with weatherization. I'd check into them because they'll definitely save you money. Back when I was on oil it saved me about 10% on my heating bills, even in a drafty old farmhouse.
Installing better insulation is always the best first step, better than the climate control solution or solar. That's why some of those states require insulation improvements before other rebates can be taken. Sometimes they also heavily subsidize the costs of improving the insulation.
Once the structure is properly insulated, then the best option between heat pumps and solar depends on the cost of electricity, as you noted.
A while back I sealed and reinsulated my house and replaced all the duct work. It made a massive difference on my electric bill as my house's HVAC system is a heat pump. I did all the work myself and got a rebate from the electric company and it ended up costing me about $1000 out of pocket. I did some calculations back then and my payback period was only a couple of years so it has been paying me back for quite a while now. It was one of the best things I have ever done.
We hired a company to do our 2 story home. Half was a previous addition that didn't need upgrades, but the other half got blown-in. Doors got new seals as well. Cost us less than 800 after the state rebates (which were all handled by the installation company). Also one of the best upgrades we've made.
We're fortunate our utility (Puget Sound Energy) will give us rebates for DIY improvements as well.
We installed a heat pump and got money back from the state and the feds.
I don't get the "I'd need to add a lot of insulation" bit.
So you're heating your house just now with gas or something, and you're basically just pissing it up a wall, and fuck the environment?
Some people don't think that far ahead. One day their gas bill will be just as bad and they'll still complain.
load more comments
(2 replies)
We got a new heat pump installed in our 1920s house in Minnesota a couple years ago. It works its ass off all year, and only needs help from the boiler in the deepest depths of winter, which it probably wouldn’t if the house were better insulated. It’s always cheaper for us than gas, and it feels great to have our climate control 80-90% decarbonized.
We want to install one this year in our MN 1920s house. Our mini splits A/C died last year. So we need both an A/C and cheaper heat will be nice. Did you like who you used?
Yeah, we got a Daikin setup installed by MSP, who work in the Twin Cities metro.
I've seen them before. I am still looking at companies.
Yeah cold climates are the place where heat pumps will always struggle the most. I'm also from MN and have been eyeing this as an option once my 30yo furnace finally gives in.
These modern ones work so well even in adverse conditions that they're gaining traction in MN with HVAC companies, which is very good to see.
What? There are tens of thousands of new alpine chalets that have a heat pump as their only source of heating and hot water
They'll only struggle if you insulated your house with half a dozen feathers
We're kinda saying the same thing. New heat pumps are improving on a problem that's been around for decades.
Most cold-climate heat pumps can run at total capacity until the outdoor temperature gets to about 5 F or below. It will still heat your home at those lower temperatures, but not necessarily keep it as warm as you may typically like. That’s where backup heat sources come in.
I'm in Jackson, Wyoming. We replaced the gas furnace with a Mitsubishi Hyper heat. The only time we need secondary heating is when the temperature goes below -20°f.
the only 'problem' is you have to keep the bone burner or some alternate source of heat (or power) for when the electricity goes out. which it does, occasionally, in the winter.
the only ‘problem’ is you have to keep the bone burner or some alternate source of heat (or power) for when the electricity goes out.
If your electricity goes out, how are you moving that heat around the house?
Thermoelectric fans! You can plop one on a stove and the heat directly generates electricity to turn the blades, pushing the air around.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
I've got a pellet stove that can run for many hours off of a small portable battery backup.
Heat pump would be preferable, though.
Isn't that a problem with most forms of heat? Propane forced air furnace isn't doing shit without electricity. Multizone boiler isn't doing shit without power (I may be half wrong here). Outdoor wood burner isn't doing shit without power. Your left with a wood/coal stove/fireplace, or wall propane burners scattered around. Wood furnace in the basement can get you by. But without electricity most forms of heat are screwed anyways aren't they?
Mostly yes, but also a little bit of no. Most gas furnaces could be powered by a battery backup or even the cheapest of gas generators since the blower motors only use 120v at 400w. You'd need a massive battery or generator to use a heat pump.
But as my neighborhood doesn't have gas, I don't really have that choice
I'm not aware of anything that's made to be used as a heat source that doesn't need electricity to work properly. Gas furnaces have fans that circulate the air. Gas boilers have pumps that circulate the water. Even most fireplaces I've seen have a fan system for circulating air (and those that don't are obviously just for ambiance and not meant to heat the room they're in, much less the house). All require electricity.
radiant heat. like masonry heaters.
load more comments
(1 replies)