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Tolkien wasn't always the most creative with names. (lemmy.world)

submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It sent me on a trip and in the end to Hittite 𒆷𒄴𒉺𒀸 (laḫpaš, “ivory”) 3700 years ago

I love etymology honestly and how it is all connected. I am really curious about onomatopoeias.

For example is ‘hmmm’ used in many unrelated languages just because it has a soothing vibration? Why do we have same onomatopoeias in cultures that never met?

Is there a language that is closest to interpreting the brain signals if we consider onomatopoeias to be a part of the language?

Perhaps some primitive pre language consisting of grunts without words. Then the evolution comes into play and animal communication.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The only one that really bothers me is them using the Gregorian calander.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Agreed. It already bothers me that we use it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I believe there's a whole section of one of the books devoted to the in world-calendars and their relation to the Gregorian one.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

The idea is that it's a translation, so some words are just modern ones used in place of what the 'real' ones are.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Tolkien's books are essentially english/European mythology, so it kind of sort of makes sense

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I mean Mediterranean is literally middle earth.

I think I was 27 when that gem hit me upside the head

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think Middle Earth is meant to be more of an analogue of Midgard. It's the middle of the earth, as opposed to the sea in the middle of the earth.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Mediterranean literally translates to "middle of the earth"

Medi = middle Terran = earth Ean = of the

The complete sea name in a native romance language, not English, is Mar de Mediterranean. The word is obviously Latin in origin and the sea has been known as such since antiquity, probably predating Rome (who at the height of their control called the Mediterranean a Roman lake, since they encircled it on all sides. How quaint of them, yea?). This would have been known to Tolkien as the educated, well everybody really, back in the day, had more exposure to Latin, which had spread out widely due to the Church. Martin Luther and Guggenheim started that unraveling, tho Latin is still spoken in many many Catholic churches today.

Midgard does translate to middle earth as well. Tolkien was prob aware of this as well, tho i think that this is lesser well known than Mediterranean, just by the global reach of Spanish.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I'm well aware of that, but conceptually Middle Earth is an analogue of Midgard. It's the land inhabited by humans in the middle.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Nah, it's literally an old english word for elephant.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oliphaunt#English

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Like how lob is an old name for spider. Shelob is just 'she-spider' or spider lady

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

There is a new version for the Hobbit in spanish, ilustrated and annotated that explains it this way

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Maybe because elephants are based on oliphaunts

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

malwithhandup.jpg

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

richardcastlewithhandup.jpg

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I stand corrected.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

He also called them mûmakil in elvish. In my mind, when the Hobbits call them oliphaunts it is because a long time ago someone talked about elephants, and over the years the correct pronunciation was lost.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Olifant is what they are called in Dutch, so it is likely is something like that in south African, where Tolkien was born.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Other way around. Oliphants before elephants. When we call them elephants it's because a long time ago someone talked about oliphants etc.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Come check out my Olifans.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Hot single pachyderms in your area.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

*Oliphans

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

What should we call this being so powerful and mysterious as to be completely unaffected by the one ring?

Tom

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

To be fair, he has other, more exotic-sounding names. Tom Bombadil is the name the hobbits gave him.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

How about this really old talking tree guy?

Treebeard!

And the huge volcano mountain that is the source of the evil artifact?

Mount Doom, naturally

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

About to name my next child Humanbeard

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Weird common human slang names for Fangorn and Orodruin/Amon Amarth

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

That explains why "Cry of the Black Birds" was on the official soundtrack.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Human: "'Treebeard'? What a plain-sounding name. Ooh, 'Fangorn' sounds exotic!"

Elf: "'Fangorn'? What a plain-sounding name. Ooh, 'Treebeard' sounds exotic!"