this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024

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Lemmy.World Announcements

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Version 0.19.X Deployment (lemmy.world)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

101 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Version 0.19.X Deployment

Hello world!

I'm sure many of you fine folks have been wondering why we have not upgraded to version 0.19.X yet.

The whole team here has been getting asked this question quite a bit, from both members of the community and other instance admins. We want everyone to know, YES, we will upgrade to version 0.19.

We do not have a hard date set for when we will be upgrading as of yet, as we have about 7 associated task items that go along with this upgrade for things we need to double-check and confirm there will be no breakage.

Another big reason why we have not upgraded is due to reports from other instance admins that the front-end GUI can have performance issues. While a large portion of folks access our site using apps on their phones, we would rather not degrade the user experience for the rest of everyone else.

Worst case in terms of UI slowness, we would ask everyone to use either Alexandrite () or Photon () to mitigate the potential performance issues.

One final point to mention to address the delay is that we usually wait 1-2 weeks after a new release before applying it to production. This was complicated by the fact that there were multiple releases right after each other, with each new release having issues we hoped would be patched in the NEXT version. A new version would come up, and we would have to evaluate the stability and performance of it, which would take about 2 weeks, and then ANOTHER version would come out, which we would need to test. This was further complicated by the fact this was during the holiday season.

Version	Release Date
0.19.0	2023-12-15
0.19.1	2023-12-20
0.19.2	2024-01-10
0.19.3	2024-01-24

For us, stability is paramount, as we care very much about keeping everyone happy here.

While we can appreciate the rapid release of patches on 0.19, I hope everyone can now understand the delay. If all goes well, we will set a release day in the next week or two, most likely on a Saturday around 1800 UTC.

-jelloeater85

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If all goes well, we will set a release day in the next week or two, most likely on a Saturday around 1800 UTC.

Any chance we get can get a status update?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We're going on four weeks from the initial statement. The lack of status updates is what bothers me the most. I understand delays, but please let us know. It just looks like it's been forgotten about.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

@[email protected], we understand this is a volunteer effort, but as the community lead, would you be able to shed some light into the status of the upgrade? I don't think we are asking or pressuring for the upgrade to happen ASAP, just some transparency would be nice. We're two weeks past the proposed update, and almost a month beyond the last communication on the topic. Appreciate what you all do to provide the community for us, we ask because we care.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

@[email protected] We are planning on trying to upgrade on 03-03-2024, we'll be announcing it formally in the next day or so.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Thank you for the update.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

You tagged the wrong admin (am not part of the tech team), but I'll forward it to the other admins (:

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Lebowski.Social has also held back with the 0.19 upgrade. We are monitoring lemmy.world for now and will make our upgrade after that most likely.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

no rush. most don't notice minor changes. thanks

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

0.19 breaks jerboa and idk if/ when that is getting updated

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

@[email protected] released v0.0.51 in mid December, but I think it only reached Google Play on Dec 18th. I'm not sure when/if it was pushed up to f-Droid.

There are some minor issues, but largely it works fine for me on instances running 0.19

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's weird I've gotten no notification there was an update out

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Did you install from Google Play?

Open the Play Store link on your phone - the automatic update process has been thoroughly broken for at least a year.

If you installed from f-Droid I have no clue - I use stock android without any alternate stores set up.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Hey ever since the update boost won't show my subscriptions and my post/comment history, I can only browse in all

Is this a known issue that I should bring up with the boost people?

Edit: I logged in to the wrong instance lol

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Edit: I logged in to the wrong instance lol

That'll do it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Hey just FYI, I've been experiencing a postgres memory leak issue on my instance since the upgrade to 0.19.2. Theres a GitHub issue open about it (#4406), not sure if it's something that will affect you but probably worth keeping in mind

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

We are investigating another possible bug, that sorta spams other instances full of requests ( we say 5k requests per 5 seconds ) kinda like a DOS attack. We only saw this phenomena on 0.19.3 instances, and they are hitting us currently hard with many requests. We will have to block them until it gets fixed on their side.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hmmmm interesting, i hope im not on the ban list! I haven't noticed any weird traffic like that

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Nope you are not ;)

We noticed it that it happens on smaller instances, that probably doesnt have the perfect hardware to run the 0.19 version and crashes => retries federation and they probably dont have a backoff strategy.

Because we noticed the site the domain was leading too wasnt responsive half of the time we tried to look if we can contact the admin.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

LETSGO

Yeah my instance is small but my uptime is pretty good (except this db issue tbh) so that might be why

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hi,

thanks for the tip, we will look into this issue and check if it affects anything on our scale.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Yeah no problem, checked the issue -- looks like there's some movement on it so we'll see

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

"I’m sure many of you fine folks have been wondering why we have not upgraded to version 0.19.X yet.

The whole team here has been getting asked this question quite a bit, from both members of the community and other instance admins. We want everyone to know, YES, we will upgrade to version 0.19."

The issue here was never that decision, which on the whole seems sensible. It was the lack of comms. If there had been an announcement of that plan or delayed after say a week or 2, you'd probably have less of those questions. Users are stakeholders, and talking only to devs and other instance runners while ignoring users shows the level of respect you have for the users of the instance...

The ironic thing, is the communication and openness at the start was the best thing about Lemmy.World, and then later down the line, it just became an after event to communicate to users. "Decided to defederate x, y and z on Discord.". Silence on attacks for months, and silence on upgrade.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We understand your frustration, but we had in the last few weeks a team restructuring and that was at that point out of our sight.

We had some mixed signals from the devs and admins at that point too, so we were unsure if we want to upgrade or wait for a another week, then those bugs struck, with federation, Timestamp incompatibilities and some other bugs. But earlier the week we had the courage to say, we could see 0.19.3 as a upgrade candidate, we did not want to announce "Hey, we upgrade to 0.19" then quickly go "Sorry no upgrade because of a critical bug" and then after new version "Hey guys upgrade time" and so on.

and announcing defederation is something to do adhoc most of the time, so it cant be like "Hey we will defederate x,y and z in a week" then, because then the reason why LW wanted to defederate that instnace floods the comments.

Please understand we all are just here on our freetime, no one here gets paid for this. So please consider this a hobby project. You can demand something like this on reddit or twitter, but not in a open source and volunteer driven Website.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I don't need to and I choose not to use reddit or twitter. lemm.ee are doing a great job. lemmy.ml is also a great option. It's a shame that they're nailing it better than world is.

Was a topic labelled 0.19 upgrade and something along the lines of "0.19 has been released by Lemmy. We are going to be waiting a few weeks to see the stability of this. Once we are satisfied, we will update here with more information."

And "due to certain federation bugs, we are going to hold back on upgrade to 0.19 until these are ironed out, we will update when we plan to do this".

It's not hard, and it seems like you're coming up with excuses rather than considering feedback...

Hexbear defederation happened before they even federated. No consultation, or discussion, just "oh, we decided to do this, and whether you care or not, ah well". lemm.ee had a post, reasons for, against and welcomed the communities view on this. Maybe you guys need to check them out and learn from them. I think it's only 1 guy too, so probably more than repeatable as a process...

Considering this is the most staffed and resourced instance, you'd expect a reasonable standard.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ok next time we straight up swap to the beta release of lemmy as you wish. If there is a issue, will redirect them to you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

So I suggested how you could do comms better, and also a sensible approach to defederation decisions, and that is your response.

Rather than thinking, "oh, is there some way we can do this better?", just get defensive and blame the person giving feedback.

It's human to err, but to refuse to learn, well that's quiet something... I had expected a more mature response.

Considering my original point was about how users on Lemmy were an after thought. Not worth factoring in to decision or consulting, you sure aren't really do a good job refuting it...

Lemmy world was the instance I originally joined when the whole exodus kicked off and others closed their doors. I was very grateful and had enormous good will for it. I never expected in the space of several months to have 180'd on it...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah my response, was a bit harsh! I will forward your feedback to the rest of the admins.

It wasnt my choice to defederate, but defederation is a non destructive thing and federation could have been restored if there was a discussion from users with evidence that they improved themselves. We would have thought about refederating with them after 0.19, because then every user can decide themselves if they want to see them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

I appreciate you taking feedback on board, and I apologise if I was harsh about this and I didn't mean for this to be aimed at you individually. It was a general frustration with general decision making and communication. It's not the first time I've raised this and I care about Lemmy, it just gets frustrating when it feels the feedback is getting stonewalled.

I appreciate the position on consideration of refederation. it does make sense to consider it post 0.19.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Thank you for looking out for us mobile/desktop web browser peasants. ❤️

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Thanks for the update. I appreciate the transparency and honesty.

No pressure from me, I know all too well about upgrading to the newest version and finding out it has a showstopper bug for the features i was planning to use.

Thankyou for running the server and helping build the community and fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Speaking as someone who is on an instance (lemmy.today) that ran into a bunch of breakage from the 0.19.X releases, and which still isn't fully resolved, and where the instance admin said that he wished that he could downgrade to 0.18.X but couldn't due to schema changes, I strongly endorse a conservative approach. The releases have not really met the bar that one might want for stability.

That's especially true for lemmy.world, since it hosts a large chunk of the Fediverse communities, and if it has serious problems, there are gonna be spillover effects even on users elsewhere. I'd wait until less-critical instances have been the guinea pig for a bit on releases.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Well said. I will happily forgo some new features for a while if it means that the overall experience is more consistent.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Seriously. Less is more.

There's no need to keep up with the meme of releasing updates as quickly as possible.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I just have a question, when is this going to be fixed?

When I go to create a post/comment I'm always required to pick the language, makes no sense. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/2317

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It would be nice to set that at the settings level and have it auto populated instead of asking each time on a post.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That's what I've been saying since there's lemmy...

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