this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
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I'm running around in leftist circles a lot since beginning of last year. I first got introduced to socialism through anarchism [stereotype alert] started to read and went pretty straight to communist and then ML pretty recently. The shoe is still new but it fits very well so far.

Whenever I bring up socialism and communism (let alone ML), I get a lot of flak from other leftists and especially from anarchists. Yet, I feel like a couple anarchist agitators sound like MLs just cosplaying. It would make sense as anarc kids are totally open for socialist ideas if one lets out the "science" part which irritates me a lot.

Does anyone have similar experience or is able to explain?

Btw pls let me know if this is inappropriate to ask. I dont mean to offend anyone.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I tell people im an Anarchist all the time if I think they are likely to be the type of person to be affected by the mind terminating cliche of marxist=tankie=fascist.

I dont feel bad about it, im an Communist-Anarchist and an ML anyway, (I know its a lot but shit, its just the range of ideology where im like, yeah core principles are good) I could work with either and would be fine with either ideology getting us past the finish line. I have issues with anarchists who are anti-communist, but if they havent got an issue with me I havent got one with them - we want the same thing after all.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago (2 children)

In the West it's a lot more culturally acceptable to be an anarchist than it is to be a socialist and especially more acceptable than being a communist. It's like how the 90s Geo Prizm and Toyota Corolla we're the same thing but to laymen the Geo had a bad reputation and the Toyota was considered the best vehicle of the era. Anarchism is when Toyota Corolla, Communism is when Geo Prizm

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

It depends where. In my country, France, anarchists have a much "worse reputation" (for the normies) than socialists and communists, especially because anarchists mobilize much more during demonstrations and are much more vehement than communists who, well, are big pussies here, not gonna lie : they forget what praxis was

[–] [email protected] 7 points 16 hours ago

Sorry, I still don't understand. Can I please get this analogy but with burgers?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

I haven't encountered this phenomenon myself, but I think it's likely that if you're an ML in an area where the only communist orgs are reactionary like the RCP and ACP, or full of sex pests, you'd opt to just stick to anarchist orgs. That might mean that anarchist orgs are getting new ML members and the ML members introduce ML ideas in a subtle enough way that the ideas get adopted.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What do you mean by ML? You mean they unconsciously reproduce democratic centralism and anti-imperialism?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Marxist-Leninist? Or do you mean which features?

I mean that some agitators use similar rhetoric (as in strong focus on class, pointing out state propaganda, militant tendencies, etc.) some even show anti imperialist patterns. I'm glad they exist. I just wonder because IRL, the anarchists I know have zero understanding of the capitalism-fascism contingency for example. The agitators mostly do know it and point it out imo which I like.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Anarchists are also socialists after all, so you will hear a similar rhetoric from them. The main difference is that for anarchists, state is the primary contradiction, rather than class.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Isn't the primary contradictions hierarchies in general, rather than the state specifically?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

it depends. hierarchy is just a very abstract concept, so it is practically impossible to analyse + impossible not to have in a big enough org. most anarchists I talked to just focus on the state.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

That is the reason mostly why i went from anarchism to classic socialism.

I read about anarchism and found huge hierarchies in local groups which were really aggressive when I pointed that out. That gave me the impression that its the same thing but less transparent and easily abused.

I'm sure that is not the case everywhere but thats when I noped out and went classic socialist, etc.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

Read Tryanny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman

It is all about the exact phenomenon you describe, written by an anarchist

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

The absence of hierarchy does not mean the absence of structure. Conceptually, her work is not very rigorous. This is very common among American theorists who claim to be left-wing. Moreover, her theory seems to be seriously challenged if we are to believe the current social protest movements in Europe, in the dawn of surveillance capitalism, which, on the contrary, seems to be much more effective when they are spontaneous, decentralized, and horizontal (the french yellow vests, for example, a movement without structure which has freaked out the power in place like never before since perhaps the events of May 1968)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 23 hours ago

With pleasure! Thanks, comrade. :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i have no idea what you mean by classic socialism

[–] [email protected] 5 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

As in not libertarian socialism (which anarchists are described as in the anarchcist faq). The "dictature of the proletariat" thing. Maybe I'm mixing up terms here. Not sure.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago

You might mean Scientific Socialism, but someone else can correct me.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago

No I don't think that is happening.

What is more likely is that they are anarchists who just have a couple good takes about specific things. Most anarchists have their own boutique version they follow and there isn't as many set "lines" as there are with MLs. So there are a lot of anarchists who haven't moved passed anarchism because they are overloaded with anti-communist programming, but still come to some correct conclusions that align with ML