this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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So, I'm just assuming we've all seen the discussions about the bear.
Personally I feel that this is an opportunity for everyone to stop and think a little about it. The knee-jerk reaction from many men seems to be something along the lines of "You would choose a dangerous animal over me? That makes me feel bad about myself." which results in endless comments of the "Akchully... according to Bayes theorem you are much more likely to..." kind.
It should be clear by now that it doesn't lead to good places.
Maybe, and I'm open to being wrong, but maybe the real message is women saying: "We are scared of unknown men."
Then, if that is the message intended, what do we do next? Maybe the best thing is just to listen. To ask questions. What have you experienced to make you feel that way?
I firmly believe that the empathy we give lays a foundation for other people being willing to have empathy for the things we try to communicate.
It doesn't mean we should feel bad about ourselves, but just to recognize that someone is trying to say something, and it's not a technical discussion about bears.
What do you think?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Then, if that is the message intended, what do we do next?

Fuck off.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. - Maya Angelou

If a woman tells you you threaten her more than a wild bear does, fucking listen, then fuck off. She is actively telling you you frighten her more than a fucking polar or grizzly. Why would you stick around? Do you enjoy terrifying people? Show some fucking respect and leave her alone forever, like she literally just asked you to. As a free bonus, you'll never have to hear her say it to you again.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

i had to google this because i am not a tiktok-er, and apparently women (? sample size?) are commonly stating that they would rather encounter a bear than a man if they were alone in the woods

interesting point that men often also chose the bear for the question of if they would rather have their wife / daughter stuck in the woods with a bear or a man, so that says a lot about men, as well, i think

we can derive some other mildly interesting points from this, like viewing sexual violence as potentially worse than non-sexual but fatal violence. or like, that one might have to live with societal judgement of having been sexually assaulted because there's still a lot of assumptions that you initiated it somehow (rape culture) vs people universally having sympathy for the victim of an animal attack

overall, the unfortunate reality is that women generally view men or people who look like men as dangerous. i'm a transgender man and i've observed this phenomenon in a very real way as women have gone from generally friendly or neutral to detached. it sucks, but it's not personal

however, if this really bothers you, there are actually some things you can do to help women feel more comfortable around you. this is not like... a guarantee. at the end of the day, you're gonna have to live with jumpscaring some women if you round a corner too quick at them. that's how life is. but, if you want to give them some signs you are not a violent person, not as a way to trick them into trusting you, but as a genuine attempt to help them feel safe:

if you change your style to be more feminine, even in subtle ways, like wearing a pink shirt or pink shoes. if you have a man purse. you don't really need to go full femme but if you express yourself in a way that makes you look like someone secure in your masculinity (actual), it will help women understand you're not really a threat

which i think, generally, reflects that women understand that patriarchy isn't about men as a whole, but rather that most men haven't confronted the ideas they were raised with in order to "be a man", and those are the dangerous ideas they need to avoid to be safe

i think there is also an idea that expressing yourself as a softer or more feminine man will make it harder for you to get laid, and i think this may be true. however, i would suggest that women who only wanna fuck you because you're traditionally masculine are not really the women you wanna be fucking, because they're (probably) going to bring their own ideas of toxic masculinity to enforce on you. those are the women who are more concerned with whether or not e.g. you can change the oil on their car, that you are a "real man", and hopefully it goes without saying that those are the ideas you want to avoid reinforcing / internalizing, even if that means turning down a sexual partner

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If men were a minority group, this would lead to calls for the male community to police itself and report suspicious behaviour to the authorities.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (8 children)

I think a lot of men believe “I’m one of the good ones” and don’t stop to think that a random woman on the street (or in the woods, in this case) has no way of determining that.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It’s not a maybe, that’s literally the entire point of the message. Unknown men are all too often kinda shitty because we have zero systems in place to teach men how to be good people and many systemic ways in which we’re told that we’re automatically better. We’re generally physically bigger, generally stronger, and, for the most part, taught to be entitled to a woman we happen to fancy.

But yes, you’ve read it correctly and we shouldn’t be getting upset but instead working on making ourselves more trustworthy. And it won’t happen in our lifetimes but it’ll be progress.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Who teaches you that you're entitled to a woman you fancy?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Traditional Western media. The hero always gets the girl?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Andrew Tate

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

For those that haven't seen it, the bear meme is an article some lady wrote. A majority of women would rather be alone in the woods with a random bear, than a random man. Then she posted about getting hate mail for that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Oh I read it as beer and was confused for a while

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would love to be in the woods with beer.

The "random" part does really take the fun out of it though.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Made me realize (hyperbole) how literal people are, how ready some are to dig their heels in and not interested in listening at all. If one ever had a conversation with a women (hyperbole), the unsafe feeling is something that comes up pretty often (I guess the women has to feel safe around you - so maybe there is that) and is sadly based on personal negative experiences they had.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I absolutely still don't understand what this supposed Bear meme thing is.. like I guess some girl chose to be in a room with a bear instead of in a room with a man? Was it just a meme? I have no idea what is going on or why everyone is so upset about it it seems like something to just divert attention away from something else

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A bear is a known a danger and really doesn’t care about you unless you piss it off. In fact, loud noises might just scare it away even if a brown bear.

While most men are probably safe enough to have around, enough are unsafe or just generally give off that vibe that women don’t want to be alone with them and a loud noise won’t scare them away. You might “know” you’re safe but they have zero reason to trust you.

Sure she might get someone who wants to work together to be mutually safe and will make efforts to leave her be otherwise, but she might also get someone who stands just a bit too close, who starts trying to “help” just a bit physically, or even who starts to get frustrated when they don’t get some kind of reward for just being some minimum level of decent. And if they’re really unlucky they get someone who just sees the isolation of the situation as an opportunity.

The bear is a known quantity. The man could be anything and there are far too many examples of every part of the spectrum. At least the bear won’t sexually assault her even at the worst.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Well that's just ridiculous.. a bear is a wild animal who will fucking maul you to death and eat you and doesn't care about you at all ... a man is a human being, and human beings can be reasoned with.. I don't knoooooowwwwww........ this whole thing just, again, sounds like a way to get the masses riled up about something that really doesn't matter and doesn't really even make any kind of logical sense really in the grand scheme of things... it just seems like something to argue about for argument's sake.. it's a good debate topic but that's about it.. be it resolved that men are worse than bears?? LOL I don't know whole thing is kind of silly to me.. but thank you so much for your explanation of it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I like how they took the time to explain it extremely well as to why us women feel this way, and your response was simply "lol nah that's bullshit".

I'd much rather run into a bear in the woods than run into a man like you in the woods.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Wildly enough.... get ready for this one.. I'm a chick. I took the time to say thank you so much for explaining it. But you can't honestly genuinely tell me that you would rather be faced with a literal wild bear from actual nature, than another human being..... that's something for a therapist and not for the internet.... and if you're one of those chicks who genuinely feels that terrified of men, you need to speak to somebody because it's not natural. And if you're one of those chicks that gets wildly crazily madly offended to the point where they think they'd rather be trapped in a room with a wild animal with teeth and Claws that see you as food then be around another human being with an opinion, you also need a therapist, because it's the internet. It's not life or death.. which it absolutely would be with a whole actual bear in the room.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (10 children)

A bear wouldn't possibly beat or torture me or rape me. A bear wouldn't try to kidnap me and lock me in its basement as its personal sex slave. A man might. A bear would simply try to eat me or run away, it's predictable. But go off about how it's totally safe to run into a strange man in the woods as a woman. 🙄

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's rage bait. It just a polarizing content meant to rile up the masses and make us argue and bicker. It takes some societal grievances and amplifies them needlessly.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Well it sure worked haha even on Lemmy good old social conditioning

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's an interesting assumption.

If your first assumption is wrong then this is just a weird and rambling post. That is somehow about bears.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There was a thing where a woman said that she would feel more safe in a forest with a random bear than with a random man. Then the people who would comment on this type of thing commented, then the kinds of people who comment on the comments did their thing.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ah.

Thanks.

It might feel something is "known by everyone" when one sees a thing frequently, but usually, it isn't..

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The internet is large and there is no way that everyone sees all of the same things as each other, especially when most of the "conversation" about the topic happens on a different platform.

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