this post was submitted on 03 May 2024
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I know Lemmy isn't normally the best place to search for this, but are there any high-quality right-wing explainers, or modern books, or media outlets?

I myself am ultra-left (quite literally communist, to the dictionary sense of the word), but I'd like to quit the bubble that inevitably forms around and look at good arguments of the opposing side, if there are any.

Is there anything in there beyond temporarily embarrassed millionaires and fears that trans people will destroy humanity? Is there rational analysis, something closer to academic research, behind modern ideas of laissez-faire capitalism and/or political conservatism?

I've tried outlets like PragerU, but they are so basic they seem to target a very uncritical audience.

I'd like to see the world in the eyes of an enlightened right-winger, and see where they possibly fail (or if suddenly they have valid arguments).

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (7 children)

Frankly, anything explicitly marketed to American conservatives these days is mostly ragebait for stupid people and I doubt you'll find any of it the least bit convincing. As other have mentioned, Thomas Sowell is a great place to start if you want something serious but modern and clearly written. Milton Friedman's Free to Choose or Capitalism and Freedom are both widely recommended classics. If you managed to read Marx without dying of boredom you should also be able to get through Ludwig von Mises' Human Action or Socialism.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Describes PragerU. I follow their YouTube and Instagram accounts and it’s almost exclusively bad faith arguments or rage bait.

99% of the comments buy into it as well. I wonder if they’re quick to clean up (read:remove) dissenting voices or if it is actually an echo chamber.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Are you punishing yourself for something?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I only saw a YouTuber make fun of their "Christopher Columbus did nothing wrong video" (not the actual title).

Their argumentation is terribly weak.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Haha. Just want to better understand how the other side sees the world.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Thanks! Marx is sometimes tough indeed, but readable :D

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This is not a right wing resource, but if you’re interested in learning about the arguments and historical evolution of ideas that underpin economic liberalism/neoliberalism, I highly recommend Geoff Mann’s Disassembly required : a field guide to actually existing capitalism. It’s concise, relatively short, and treats the ‘other’ side like rational actors (which is important for understanding, I think).

Ofc this would only help understand people who are quite well informed.

https://archive.org/details/isbn_9781849351270

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Maybe check out Matt McManus's work, he's a professor at the University of Michigan.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

Going to Lemmy and asking this is like going to Truth.Social and asking about resources for helping trans teens.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

True, which is why I started my first paragraph with this :D

I came to Lemmy since it's the only such platform I trust to be inhabited by real benevolent people with useful recommendations. But the bias is obviously there.

Still, I got a lot of useful reads.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Others have weighed in on the academic, but a lot of the American conservative braintrust is (literally) in think tanks like the Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, John Birch Society, etc. These organizations vary from "pretty right wing" Heritage to "nearly literally fascist" John Birch Society, and they put out a LOT of papers and material they use to...I'll generously say "inform" the public discourse.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

There’s an episode of Behind the Bastards touching on the subject - “How Conservatism Won”. Not a right-wing resource at all, obviously, but that’s where a lot of the money goes indeed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Yep it’s a great one. Knowledge Fight talks about JBS all the time as well

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Thanks! Will check them out. Useful to get closer to sources everyday conseratives lean to

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I will have to preface this with the fact that I have not read any of his books, but former British politician Rory Stewart is one of the people that comes to my mind when reading your description. I don't think that he comes to the right policy positions, of course, but whenever I listen to him he does seem to at least have a degree of empathy for all people. He seems to at least generally see the problem even if I think that his solution wouldn't work. He has an effective way with words in interviews and his writing is generally very well reviewed too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Might be useful when taking popular side of it, thanks!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

He isn't really right wing though, he is from a different Tory faction which failed to tap into much of any power in the past few governments. Politics on the Edge gave good insight into his time as an MP and his roles during the period, but he didn't justify or go into much detail about what being on the right (centre right for him, really) truly means.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure that makes him not right wing, surely that just means he wasn't the kind of right wing that succeeded in the political landscape of the UK in the past 20ish years? His voting record is generally in favour of less regulation (outside of a few issues), lower taxes, military intervention, isolation from the EU. He's pro-environmentalist, but that hasn't always been an exclusively left-wing thing. Similarly, anarchists and Marxist-Leninists are both left wing, even if they wouldn't necessarily get along well in a single political party together

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

There are many left-wing people who were for leaving the EU, so I wouldn't use that as a measuring stick of left/right.

His voting record is something he has covered; a lot of these votes which make him seem particularly bad (I'm not a big fan of his, despite having read The Place In Between - before I knew who he was - and Politics on the Edge) but from times when people were whipped or 'encouraged' to vote a particular way. We found out what happened when he did go against the whip, with even Nicholas Soames feeling that wrath.

Edit: my first sentence in my previous post can be misinterpreted. My meaning is that he isn't very (strongly) right wing, not that he isn't right wing at all, as he clearly is centre-right at his most 'left'.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Fair enough. The whip is a reasonable point to bring up, though I would suggest that if it bothered him that much he wouldn't have stayed in the party for ten years. After all, he had switched parties beforehand. I get where you're coming from though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Robert Nozick's Anarchy, State and Utopia is a solid philosophical foundation for a lot of right wing thought. If you want to engage further you can follow up with Michael Otsuka's critique in Self-Ownership and Equality: A Lockean Reconciliation.

Nozick provides an underpinning for what many think of as traditional conservative American values, without basing it in Christianity.

Then of course there's the Chicago school of economics (Friedman et al), which is just a somewhat naive and more it less completely discredited take on how the economy works. It's fundamental for understanding American politics the previous half century, but their ideas are not really worth interacting with unless you're particularly interested in economics. It's not like the idiot politicians who push it in front of them understand the theories either.

Thsee theories is not far right; there's no salvaging the far right, and their ideological basis is mostly just bigotry. You could read Ayn Rand to try to understand which hole these idiots crawled from. Or better, don't waste your time.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I see! Actually, I think I should touch Ayn Rand at some point to get more popular sentiment - in modern times, her books, particularly Atlas Shrugged, seem to be the Bible of common liberals.

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)

Yes! I've been on this journey!

Thomas Sowell's bibliography is easily the best starting place. Just pick something and have at it. As a prominent conservative economist, his books actually make good arguments. It takes actual effort to deconstruct his arguments and identify where he's wrong. He's widely and highly respected in conservative communities and tackles a lot of the common cultural war issues.

Then there's granddaddies Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek. Also economists, they were directly impacted by the Cold War, and make intellectual cases that capitalism is the only economic system that leads to real individual freedom. And they also try to prove why the totalitarianism of the Soviet Union and every lesser species of it undermines liberty. Hayek's Road to Serfdom and Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom are staples.

Castigated by modern conservatives because they're not serious about anything, sociology's Emile Durkheim is a cornerstone of the discipline. I've never read it, but his book *Suicide *concerns individuals within community and the institutions of it. He talks about a type of suicide derived from moral disorder and lack of clarity, anomic suicide.

One book that I found incredibly insightful was Yuval Levin's The Great Debate: Edmund Burke, Thomas Paine, and the Birth of Right and Left. This book is genuinely fair to both sides, and it shows the historical roots of conservatism and its relation to the French Revolution, when the right and the left as political stances first became a thing.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago

Wow, thank you for such a detailed response!

I'll check out the sources you've given.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (1 children)

OP, this guy has given you an honest answer that is actually good material.

Seconding these recommendations.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Love the name

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Ayn Rand is where modern right wing ideology started. You really don't need to read a whole book, she beats you over the head with the message repeatedly.

Fast forward to the Rush Limbaugh talk show and listen to some of his monologues.

Then jump back to Mein Kampf to see the future of the right wing.

It's all bullshit, and it's easy to fall down the rabbit hole of right wing talking points. Ask critical questions like what happens to the most vulnerable populations under that system and you realize quickly that it's Sparta all over again and they will be actively killed because they believe in eugenics.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago

I thought your review of conservatism was very fair and balanced. I give it a perfect 5/7.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

If you really consider reading Mein Kampf, don't.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Hard disagree with Rand, thats just a libertarian circle jerk.

Better would be anything from Jefferson. If you really want to get into the weeds, the Anti-Federalists from the 1790's opposing the Constitution in favor of keeping the original Articles of Confederation that governed the US right after independence.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Jefferson sounds like a barely relevant choice from a very distant time, something that an average libertarianist will shove in people's faces without telling it fails to describe shortcomings of capitalism highlighted by later thinkers.

But as a starting point, I see how that may be useful. Thank you!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

If you’re looking for credible conservatives who actually confront the shortcomings of capitalism, I can’t think of any. But these early writings were pretty well-thought out and are foundational to later ideas, so I think they’re worth reading.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The first name that came to mind was Thomas Sowell

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Second time I hear this name, should check out! Thanks!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Foundations of geopolitics by Aleksander Dugan. This is the basis of modern European, conservative actions and the Russian playbook for the last 30 years.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You mean Dugin? Heard of him a lot lately.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yup that's him. A Russian ultra nationalist who essentially wrote a game plan for Russia to dismantle the liberal world order of the west, and was/is highly popular in russian political and military leadership. Many of his suggestions are part of russian doctrine today (like the notion that Ukraine has no cultural identity or value and should be taken over). Quite eye opening.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

The Road to Unfreedom: Russia, Europe, America https://a.co/d/5pCJwnr

This would probably be better for an american reader. Theyre not gonna get the cultural underpinnings of 'Foundations' without reading an analysis and I dont think this is what OP is looking for. Foundations is Russian international relations theory.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not sure of you'll find the academic research you are looking for, at least out of the US, since the modern Conservative movement seems to have eschewed academia as filled with Liberals.

I haven't read this book yet, but I'd recommend Hillbilly Elegy, a memoir about JD Vance's life in Appalachia, It came out in 2016, and I recall folks thinking that it was a good read, even if they didn't agree with Vance's politics, and partially explained Trump's appeal to rural voters whose lifestyle bears no resemblance at all to Trump. The book has to be somewhat compelling, since Ron Howard made a movie out of it. And Vance parlayed it into a Senate seat, after all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Interesting! Thank you

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (4 children)

If youre being honest, then youre going to need to look at historical material like Locke & Hobbes to get a foundation.

Modern conserativism... aggitation... can bw traced through Gingrich in the House in the early 90s, I cant think of the book off the top of my head but theres a pretty decent record of how he did manipulative things with unmanned cspan cameras at the time.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

This. Perhaps even some "Wealth of Nations" and similar.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

For Gingrich, you can read his memo Language: A Key Mechanism of Control.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Gingrich’s “Contract With America” book was such word salad. Every other page contradicted the others.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago
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