If only there was a way for dedicated fans to run their own servers for PVE co-op with friends...
this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2024
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Who the fuck is paying $150 for a fucking video game? Sounds like suckers who got scammed
*for a new game mode in an existing game
Actually the game mode is on a pack selling for 250$
People who already bought the 150$ price only get a 6 month free trial of the game mode.
Or they pay an extra 100 to upgrade
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The $150 isn’t for the new game mode. People that paid $150 were told they’d get all DLC. The devs are saying this isn’t DLC and these folks will get it for free once the game is out of early access. People that paid $250 can play this now. People that paid any more will have some level of discount to purchase access to this mode.
It’s all in the article.
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I was a big fan of the game. Always thought it had potential to be great. I had already quit this wipe pretty much as soon as I hit Max traders. Don't think I'll be returning back next wipe.
Yeah honestly, I bought Tarkov second-hand for $8 and even then I felt like I was getting ripped off.
It's probably not news to anyone but the game has extremely lax anti-cheat controls.
As for why people would cheat in an online game, it always seems obvious from a psychological standpoint, but the cheats for Tarkov are so egregious they're like full blown developer offline DEBUG TOOLS.
I don't mean "oh no, aim assistance, and they can see you through walls" -- the cheat tools are hooking into features of the GAME ENGINE ITSELF, allowing players to see:
PlayerName, Current HP, Current Level, Full inventory contents, currently equipped weapon, position, heading, estimated value of inventory, estimated value of your account, age of account creation, and so on.
They can also: Teleport, FLY, increase or decrease their run speed, jump height, and so on.
The cheaters are basically running around with admin privileges in the game, and the developers don't give a flying fuck. It's like GTA5 levels of cheating.
Why would anyone play such a game, much less pay $150 to be abused by people? You can slam your dick in a car door for a lot less.
Cheaters are a big problem in this game. To experience the cool parts of the game without all the bulshit, there is still SPT-AKI for playing solo and also the SIT mod for PvE multiplayer coop.
I'd rather pay someone else to slam my dick in a car door for 150 clams.
I mean, i'd argue that a car costs a bit more than $150, but i see your point.
Call an Uber
Cheating is such a hard problem.
Like, this is what leads to invasive client-side anti-cheat. Which also happens to be one of the main blockers for OS portability.
But if you make it so that the server has to constantly validate the game state, you get terrible lag.
You really have to design your game well to deter cheaters. And you have to empower server moderators to ban cheaters. This sorta implies releasing the servers so that communities can run their own instances, because these studios don't have the resources to handle moderation themselves.
the validation shouldn't cause too much lag since game needs to sync up the game states anyways, which is an operation that is inherently way more expensive than any validation anyways (since each frame of the following game states need to adhere to the game rules anyways, there's already inherently some form of validation). It's more about not trusting everything the client says the game state should be.
Whats sad is that people keep wanting more client-side anticheat to fix this, when the real answer is server-side anticheat and changing the engine to stop being so leaky with that much information.
It's easy to just handwaive and say "Server side will fix it" but here's a major issue:
You have to render people in before they appear. How do you do that without the client knowing where people are?
but here’s a major issue:
You're acting like other games have never successfully ran server-side before. Hell the whole net engine doesn't need to be server-side at all. But you can run server side checks on shit at the very least. A player being 100 ft in the air is likely a cheater... A player making a shot through impenetrable terrain is likely a cheater. Tarkov is missing these basics. Forget ESPs and other bullshit.
If you should absolutely be checking for repeat issues and basics. Not trying to excuse that shit, just saying server side isn't a silver bullet.
Hell. I have enough trouble knowing where I am much less predicting where other people will appear.
I don't know game development but uh do you? What are you rendering when the player can't see them? I might legitimately just not get what you mean
You constantly have to render people in when they can't be seen but will soon be seen. Which also means instead of keeping track of just locations the server needs to render the scene in sufficient detail as to determine sightlines.
Usually games just do this by sending info to clients of where everyone is and letting the clients render people in when the client determines that the sightline isn't interrupted.
Some games will just not send the positions until they're within a certain range of each other, but I'm a realistic game like tark you'd need several kilometers of info in case someone scoped in.
If you don't do this correctly it leads to characters popping into existence from thin air
You could use things like ray tracing to determine if one player can be seen by another on the serverside and only send packages when they can see.
But to resource heavy to do that.
Edit: Thinking about it, you simply have to render the whole map with all players server side and based on that determine which players can see each other and based on that send the information to the clients.
You do see why that's a serious issue right? Before the Server did nothing more than maintain a list of x,y,z coordinates of player positions. Now it's rendering the entire game space and doing 3d calculations.
That's several orders of magnitude more complex and costly.
That's exactly what i said.
Still no reason to put a root kit on the customers PC.
There's no way in hell you'll ever get a game company to agree to that. You're talking 100x the expense of running a server at a minimum.
If the trajectory and speed says either the client or another player will cross a wall soon where the player sees them THEN it could send the data to the client. You need some tolerance for ping up to maybe 200ms but that's it. Wallhacks could give you at most a flash of a couple specific people.
You need to account for every gap in the wall, nook and cranny and peephole for these sightlines. You'd have to bake so much detail into every calculation server side that it would effectively be rendering the entire map to host a single game.
It could be a client-side check with verification on the server. Basically transmitting which places are in view. Ray casting like the other person said. Not raytracing which is much more computationally intensive. A server side check basically so that the client can't just say they're looking around every corner at once.
But then you're adding extra latency to all visual calculations.
Your client needs to know if something is visible within the framerate of their PC.
You cannot do that fast enough.
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By rendering people, as in sending data about an object that should be rendered, in a few pixels before they would be visible. And not at all on distances, without a scope (as they would not be visible). Footsteps etc. could be represented by two noise levels precalculated by the servers very roughly, so you can tell someone is there behind you, but a cheat could not determine where exactly.
You want a server to determine if a player should be visible (ie render each player's perspective) and then get that back to them right before someone walks around the corner? With latency you'd need to render people in at least 200ms before they appear... Which is still plenty of time for a hacker to flick to them and kill them.
True that, but I imagine such sudden flicking to seemingly random positions to be much more obvious than if the hacker had 10 seconds to see the player, tactically preaiming a corner pretending to hold an angle to then be lucky and hit a shot. Would be harder on games with smaller maps, CS like, as holding angles would be much more common than in open worlds - eg. Tarkov.
My point was that you're multiplying server costs several times to do that complex rendering and still not solving the problem.
You do something called raycasting to determine visibility beforehand, and don't render anything not visible.
Your suggesting the server maintain a real time render for every single player and somehow manage to get the data back to them in less than 17ms so that they don't have empty frames that suddenly become people?
Because that's a ludicrous requirement in terms of latency (ping is totally reasonable at any value under 100ms) and server capacity.
Because your solution sounds like it would cause popping constantly and be a major burden on the server, which is already the largest overhead on a released game.
lol raycasting isn’t optimized for server side deployment, it would increase the poly count of the mesh tenfold, which would in turn increase average ping and fps. Couple that with the client side rendering problem and I don’t know anything about development just kidding
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This makes me happy I never got to play Tarkov.
Fellow gamers, if you don't push back against this nonsense now, you will be living with this treatment as customers for a long time, if not forever.
This. People paying hundreds for a skin in CS and hundred for a new game mode that they might not even get into are the reason things we get games like Suicide Squad.
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