this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2025
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I see a lot of misinformation about bluesky here, so I want to address a lot of the talking points against atproto/bluesky.

This is partially inspired by accounts like mastodon migration and feditips being really annoying about bluesky.

How Bluesky Works

I see a lot of people misunderstanding how it works.
The network has three main parts:

  1. A PDS -- This stands for Personal Data Server. These store information in records, like who you are following, your posts, who you are blocking and your images.
  2. A relay -- These crawl PDSes and keep a copy of all the records on them. They give a "Firehose" of all the data on the network (that they crawled).
  3. An AppView -- These index and work through the data from the firehose. All interactions are handled through these, meaning if someone follows me on bluesky, that app.bsky.graph.follow record will be crawled by the relay, and recieved by the AppView. https://bsky.app/ is an Appview. Appviews don't always have to use the relays, https://whtwnd.com/ connects to PDSes directly.

This is different to ActivityPub, where if I follow someone, my server sends that information directly to the other person's server.

Common misconceptions

An atproto relay is too expensive to run.

https://atproto.africa/ is a second full-network relay run by the blacksky team. We already have a second relay, and they're not even that expensive to run anymore, a lot of people run non-archival (meaning it doesn't backfill every post) relays for less than $40 a month.

There is no instances available except for bsky.social

bsky.social isn't actually an instance, its just the domain name assigned to users by default. This is explained here: https://app.wafrn.net/fediverse/post/f8fc8da8-cd7e-4fae-a895-ac59dc28088f

Wafrn has (opt-in) bluesky support, they act as a PDS and AppView, so if bluesky disappears tomorrow they can switch to the atproto.africa relay. (There is DID:PLC which is a problem, but I'll get to that later.)

You can't defederate bsky.social, this proves atproto is centralised!

https://app.wafrn.net/fediverse/post/f8fc8da8-cd7e-4fae-a895-ac59dc28088f also explains this, bsky.social is just the name assigned to users, each PDS has names like https://brittlegill.us-west.host.bsky.network/ (where my account is).

While you could ignore records from a specific PDS on the App layer, its pretty pointless, since atproto is portable/content addressed, meaning a user could seamlessly move to another PDS. (AP does support moving, but its pretty seamful.)

(While I was writing this someone posted a pretty good blogpost about this: https://blog.cyrneko.eu/there-is-no-bsky-social-instance)

Bluesky can censor people in turkey, this proves they're centralised!

Those posts weren't removed, people on third party bluesky apps in turkey could still see them.
People in Turkey are automatically subscribed to a Moderation Service which hides those posts, as the government requires it.
If a person unsubscribes, or uses a third party app/server the posts are still there.

Bluesky isn't decentralised as someone was banned for pointing out the head of T&S liked jailbait porn.

That person came back on a different PDS. They literally are still on bluesky because they joined a different server.

Bluesky went down due to a DDoS, this proves they are centralised!

The DDoS only crashed the Bluesky PDSes. People self hosting were fine.


Wafrn

Wafrn is a federated tumblr alternative. It started off as a tumblr clone, the dev added AP support, and eventually, Atproto support.
Its a great example of how bluesky can be built on.
If bluesky disappeared tomorrow, Wafrn could switch relays to atproto.africa, and still interact with people on other PDSes.


AppViewLite

appviewlite is a cool project I forgot to mention in the original post. It lets you self host an extremely lightweight Appview.
You can crawl PDSes yourself, eliminating the need for a relay.
https://github.com/alnkesq/AppViewLite

The main reason I made this post is because so many people are blindly anti-atproto, without fully understanding how it works and how it can be improved.

There is obviously problems with it, but it does a lot right. (There's a lot ActivityPub should do, like content addressing, DIDs and composable moderation).

I also think we could do with a better bridge. bridgy isn't really cutting it right now.


Note on did:plc, its the only centralised part of the network as of now, its essentially the underlying ID every account has. It is possible to use a did:web id instead, which is tied to a website name.


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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (7 children)

There are only 15,000 out of 36 Million users that are on servers not owned by Bluesky.

99.96% of users being on one instance isn't Decentralised even if the technology supports it in theory. If 99.96% of users were on lemmy.world, I wouldn't call lemmy decentralised even if the technology allows it in theory.

🧮 Decentralization Scoring System (v1.3)

📋 Breakdown (Estimates)

Platform    Score Visualization                           
📧 Email          95 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🐹 Lemmy          79 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🐘 Mastodon        74 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩                 
🟣 PeerTube        94 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🖼 Pixelfed        42 🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧
🔵 Bluesky        14 🟥🟥🟥                                 
🟥 Reddit           3 🟥 

Source

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (15 children)

I hope I am not adding to the problem here as well. It seems that obviously Bluesky is neither fully centralized nor fully decentralized. Is there a statement about just how much of either it is?

Although that might be complicated - like someone could say that Lemmy is fairly centralized, bc if you block Lemmy.World then you lose half the users and perhaps half the communities (and PieFed even more so, with PieFed.social representing an even higher fraction of users and communities on it).

So there is a distinction between Bluesky the service as it currently is implemented and Bluesky the protocol, the former of which is fairly centralized but the latter is more expandable?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

~99.96% of all Bluesky users and content is on Bluesky servers.

Bluesky is decentralised in theory, but in reality it is not. Until one entity doesn't own over 90% of the users and content, I really can't see how it can be seen as decentralised.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (22 children)

@Ek-Hou-Van-Braai
@OpenStars

It's not a matter of how many users, but whether those users have the option to switch servers. By the former standard, mastodon would be considered centralized simply because of mastodon.social.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

I just say bluesky because that's what everyone knows it as. I'm really talking about its network.

Its not very well distributed, because almost everyone is on bluesky's meganodes.
Its more of a social problem than a technical problem at this point.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

if you block Lemmy.World then you lose half the users

35% (16k out of 46k MAU): https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Or even 33% as we should count PieFed and Mbin too (this makes 48k MAU overall). All 3 "apps" make one network.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

Good point!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

Nice. I remember when it was 80%, then it fell to half, 40%, and apparently now is closer to a third than half. Excellent decentralizing!:-)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

As I understand (I could be wrong) bridgy is not useful as it could be as it got bullied into being opt-in instead of opt-out.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

You would be correct.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 6 days ago (1 children)

PDSes and relays exist at the whim of Bluesky's corporate entity. Having all of the endpoints on the network controlled by a single agent is what makes Bluesky centralized. If Bluesky decided so, your server can be removed from their network and is functionally useless at that point. They decide who is and is not allowed to be a part of Bluesky.

For contrast, no such governing body exists with ActivityPub networks. Nobody can decide whether or not an instance should be removed from the network, they can only choose whether or not to federate with that instance. If you wanted to truly silence a Lemmy instance, for example, it would take the cooperation of all the major Lemmy admins to defederate, and is an entirely democratic process as a result.

EDIT: To clarify, ATProto is not what is centralized, "Bluesky" the platform utilizing ATProto, is what's centralized.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Very useful, thanks.

As I see it, Bluesky is fundamentally different from Xitter and it is a major step in the right direction. It is short-sighted to reject it because of some technical imperfections.

The fundamental question IMO is whether there is enough mindshare (i.e. users and attention) to allow ATSocial (AKA partial federation) and ActivityPub (AKA total federation) to both be successful. I'm thinking there is. After all, the vast majority of people are still on ad-fuelled corporate social media, with all its internal contradictions.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I think the technical imperfections are not the real reason people are against it. In my opinion it just can't be trusted to have a corp in control. It would be like having Microsoft own the activity pub repo.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I agree with you there.
I wish they put a bit more effort into getting people onto independant servers.
They took to opposite approch of mastodon: they abandoned proper distribution for better growth.

In any case, ActivityPub and atproto can both coexist.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

They are slowly making their way towards becoming another "Big Tech" company, they play nice with their users etc. now while they are still growing. Just like YouTube, Instagram, Facebook etc. did in the beginning, but eventually they will pick profit over their users.

I just don't trust them enough to actually follow through with becoming Decentralised and giving up controlling over 99% of users.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization
Decentralization or decentralisation is the process by which the activities of an organization, particularly those related to planning and decision-making, are distributed or delegated away from a central, authoritative location or group and given to smaller factions within it

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Christine Lemmer-Webber made an excellent blog post ~6 months ago titled How Decentralized is Bluesky really?

Give that a read.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I don't mean this in an agressive way, but did you really think I haven't read that?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Well, if you have read it then your cherry picking of minor ways Bluesky is slighly less closed comes accross as pretty bad faith 🤷

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I have read it, and a lot of the problems have been addressed.
Bluesky is still very early. There was an awkward period where lemmy was mostly lemmy.ml.

I'm not trying to cherry pick anything, I'm just addressing arguments against it I have seen.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, lemmy.zip and any other instance run on the same software

Wafrn doesn't run the same software as Bluesky.social

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

My point was that the network was fairly centralised in the beginning. The people behind atproto.africa are working on an alternate bluesky appview anyway.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I really hate this attitude.

Most people who are against bluesky don't even care about an open internet or whatever, they just want their protocol to win or whatever.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Sure seems like that's what you're doing. Notice how no one is against ATProto. Your post title is about BlueSky, not about ATProto.

We don't care about the protocol, despite what you think. Your average Lemmy user isn't on a standards body. We care about the network it facilitates.

Volunteers run the Fediverse, keeping it open. The former Twitter CEO runs BlyeSky. Want to start an actual open network running ATProto? Go for it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

I don't think you should be critising bluesky when you don't even know who the CEO is.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Good to hear!

The main difference is still that every work put into Bluesky.social can not be reused by other "servers", unlike Lemmy

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm not quite sure what you mean here to be honest.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If the Lemmy devs implement a feature, all Lemmy instances can update and get that feature.

Based on what you are saying, the people behind atproto.africa have to implement their own alternative to the Bluesky appview (I guess because they can't reuse Bluesky.social code?)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

No, they just want to develop it themselves so they have no reliance on bluesky.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

+1, I came here just to paste a link to it

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago

I was wrong in my read on things; the new relays are pulling the entire network. Definitely a different experiment at that point.

Mea culpa on misrepresenting.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What about private messages between users?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

That is horribly centralised, but its not (imo) an essential part of the network.
They do intent to fix it at some point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Good post, bookmarked. A lot of fediverse people who react almost reactionary against bluesky are well meaning, but don’t really understand how it works. This is good content, thanks.

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