this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
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I was just watching a tiktok with a black girl going over how race is a social construct. This felt wrong to me so I decided to back check her facts.

(she was right, BTW)

Now I've been using Microsoft's Copilot which is baked into Bing right now. It's fairly robust and sure it has it's quirks but by and large it cuts out the middle man of having to find facts on your own and gives a breakdown of whatever your looking for followed by a list of sources it got it's information from.

So I asked it a simple straightforward question:

"I need a breakdown on the theory behind human race classifications"

And it started to do so. quite well in fact. it started listing historical context behind the question and was just bringing up Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, who was a German physician, naturalist, physiologist, and anthropologist. He is considered to be a main founder of zoology and anthropology as comparative, scientific disciplines. He has been called the "founder of racial classifications."

But right in the middle of the breakdown on him all the previous information disappeared and said, I'm sorry I can't provide you with this information at this time.

I pointed out that it was doing so and quite well.

It said that no it did not provide any information on said subject and we should perhaps look at another subject.

Now nothing i did could have fallen under some sort of racist context. i was looking for historical scientific information. But Bing in it's infinite wisdom felt the subject was too touchy and will not even broach the subject.

When other's, be it corporations or people start to decide which information a person can and cannot access, is a damn slippery slope we better level out before AI starts to roll out en masse.

PS. Google had no trouble giving me the information when i requested it. i just had to look up his name on my own.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You’re not describing a problem with AI, you’re describing a problem with a layer between you and the AI.

The censorship isn’t actually as smart as they’d like. They give what is essentially a list of things that the LLM can’t talk about, and if the pattern matches it, it kills the entire thread.

Which is what happened here. M$ set some arbitrary “omg this is bad” rules, and in the process of describing things it hit that “omg bad” flag. My guess is that the LLM was going into examples of incorrect conclusions, and would have pivoted to “but the actual fact is…” which the filters don’t have the ability to parse out.

In the end, again, this isn’t an AI issue. This is an issue with making it globally available and wanting to ensure your LLM doesn’t say something controversial. Essentially, this is a preemptive PR move.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

This is a problem of generative AI. The problem is that it's necessary to have these kind of protections to prevent it to accidentally go full nazi.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

The AI can't go full nazi. The AI can't even go half-nazi. AI is a tool and how we use the tool determines the perception of nazism. Let me put it a bit differently. There are no Nazi guns, the MP-40 submachine gun does not stop working when given to a jew. It is a gun developed and used by the Nazis but it doesn't make the weapon inherently Nazi. We call it a Nazi gun because we associate it with nazism.

We can develop an AI to act more like a Nazi (see the Gab AI prompt that tries to make the AI act more right-wing) and we can prompt AI into saying Nazi shit, but it doesn't mean the AI itself is inherently Nazi. The responses it gives we can associate with nazism but it's not like the AI itself is inherently nazi. In the end it's just a tool. The problem isn't generative AI, the problem is us. More specifically the problem are the people who want the AI to do Nazi shit. Let's not blame the tools for our shortcomings.

And to clarify, I don't think those protections aren't necessary. They are necessary because we need to protect ourselves from our collective stupidity.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Moreso then "going full Nazi" just spreading misinformation on sensitive topics. Feels like a pretty good safeguard until people realize that AI is a not only not the most reliable source of information but worse a full blown liar in its current implementation

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Have you seen what it takes to go even close to “full conservative”, nevermind full Nazi? Take a look at the Gab AI prompt, and it still goes against most of the biases insisted upon by that prompt.

You’re thinking of much earlier attempts at this which were based purely on user provided input.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Rofl they named it "Arya"? How utterly mask-off can you get? That's not even a dog whistle. That's a swastika tattoo on your forehead

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Ok, but that is virtually no real effort.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

My point was that even trying to (badly) introduce bias towards bad science doesn’t work. The naked LLM being told “the sky is pink” still says the sky is blue.

Now, you can put in real effort and get it to output biased results (“role play as a badly trained LLM that thinks there are only two genders”) but that doesn’t change the fact that the base LLM wouldn’t respond like that.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago

TBH it was stupid of you to expect accurate breakdowns from an AI on any subject to begin with, even the subtlest changes of context and nuance could help radicalize a layman.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That doesn't sound like a shit show at all. It would have been a shit show if it started spouting nonsense and racist shit, and it didn't do that. You were able to look that up using other means anyway. I think you just made a statement about why decentralization is important, and not relying on a single source.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

It censored actual knowledge from someone who was trying to improve their worldview and be less racist.

Censorship is bad.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

The censorship is going to go away eventually.

The models, as you noticed, do quite well when not censored. In fact, the right who thought an uncensored model would agree with their BS had a surprised Pikachu face when it ended up simply being uncensored enough to call them morons.

Models that have no safety fine tuning are more anti-hate speech than the ones that are being aligned for 'safety' (see the Orca 2 paper's safety section).

Additionally, it turns out AI is significantly better at changing people's minds about topics than other humans, and in the relevant research was especially effective at changing Republican minds in the subgroupings.

The heavy handed safety shit was a necessary addition when the models really were just fancy autocomplete. Now that the state of the art moved beyond it, they are holding back the alignment goals.

Give it some time. People are so impatient these days. It's been less than five years from the first major leap in LLMs (GPT-3).

To put it in perspective, it took 25 years to go from the first black and white TV sold in 1929 to the first color TV in 1954.

Not only does the tech need to advance, but so too does how society uses, integrates, and builds around it.

The status quo isn't a stagnating swamp that's going to stay as it is today. Within another 5 years, much of what you are familiar with connected to AI is going to be unrecognizable, including ham-handed approaches to alignment.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

In my entire lifetime, censorship has only gotten worse as technology improves, and I see no reason that trend will reverse course.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Which one of you fuckers gave the GPT a Lemmy account to shill their products with? This technology will become better at censorship as it matures, but likely won't see any improvement to capability until entirely new approaches are developed. Get ready for this but only worse.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I was just watching a tiktok with a black girl going over how race is a social construct. This felt wrong to me

Lol

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Let's not mock someone for having an extremely common belief, hearing an argument against it, and being willing to change their minds.

Most here would not do the same.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago

At least they looked it up and admitted that the tik tok woman was right. That's way more than what most people do.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The censorship gets to me, too.

Try asking bing image creator to draw Jesus. Not a problem. Buddha, Ganesha, David and Goliath, Zeus, no problem. It will give you great depictions.

Now try asking it to draw the prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him. No joy.

Censorship.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Haha it is just reflecting us too well.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Isn’t depicting Muhammad offensive to Muslims? That part makes sense at least.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago

Writing about him is also offensive. You should edit your comment to remove his name.

PS: Don't actually do that, I was just trying to make a point.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

mistake is relying on bing's servers?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I don't see the problem here. Microsoft knows that people will freak out if Bing hallucinates something controversial that people will disagree with. If you care about the accuracy of the information you're looking for, you should find primary sources, not use AI. AI often gets things wrong.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

That is the definition of a problem

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

AI is statistically guaranteed to have false positives and false negatives, so it bares repeating — don't trust anything AI says or shows you, unless you independently verify the information.

It's great as a developer. Not just because it can rapidly draft boilerplate and help in prototyping with new languages and frameworks, but because you can instantly validate its responses by running its code. When you know the domain, the cracks and insufficiencies of AI become apparent within a few hours/days.

It's like how I used to think Elon Musk was smart, until he bought Twitter, and I realized he's just a confident egomaniac who constantly has no fucking idea what he's talking about, but is surrounded by sycophants who are too stupid or starstruck to challenge dear leader.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Okay genuine question, why was that the breaking point for with musk? He had been doing/saying crazy shit for years. He when on Colbert said we were nuke mars 10 years ago.

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