this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024

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-31

Young voters aren't warming up to Biden. They know it means Trump could win again. (www.usatoday.com)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

135 comments fedilink hide all child comments

(page 3) 44 comments

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

"It feels like the older generation is still in charge, and there are such huge differences in our experiences," said Jeremy Gold, 30, of Nashville.

"We feel like we've been ripped off by the 'American dream' idea ‒ we've seen the financial repercussions of our parents' and grandparents' generations multiple times over, seen a lot more violence and war than we were originally told would happen, and we feel ripped off," he said. "The lack of voting is probably a little bit of a middle finger to those who passed that to us."

This is how I feel.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago (30 children)

It's a really childish view of what voting is supposed to be. No, Biden isn't everything you want, but Trump is a DUMPSTER FIRE who will actively make your life WORSE.

So your choice is:

Vote for Biden
Don't vote, and elect Trump
Vote 3rd party and elect Trump
Vote for Trump

[+] [email protected] -8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (16 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Too much naivete to address in this post but I'd certainly omit the word "wise". Not liking the options is one thing, refusing to vote for the better one when the other is credibly accused of espionage is fucking dumb. Young people can vote or not vote but if someone lectures me about not taking part in a broken system they're going to get an earful about how they let assholes ruin their lives through inaction. No one's going to get what they want by doing nothing and you will never get a candidate that fits you 100% (and if you do, you're in a cult).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If a candidate goes out of their way to not represent you, derides and ignores your needs, why would you vote for them?

The recasting of voting as some sort of loyalty or allegiance or like a parasocial relationship you're supposed to have with the candidate is weird and not how it works.

You would vote for them because it'll produce a better outcome.

If you want to get the bums out of the Democratic party, so that we can vote for even better outcomes than the ones currently on the table, fuckin' tell me how, because I'm starting to agree with you that it would be super important. But withholding votes for the better guy over the worse guy in the meantime is like refusing to look for a job until the rates of pay that you're seeing on Indeed start to get higher. Simply not how it works and counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Why is the answer never "Biden has to do something bold and public to earn the votes of the unexcited, rather than leaning on I'm-not-Trump?"

The student loan thing night have worked if the courts didn't shoot it full of holes. Why is he not promising to pack the courts to force it through? Stonewall any legislation that limps through the knife-edge House until they codify Roe? Go for the fucking jugular on something!

Showing some real backbone to Bibi might help, but we can't possibly have that.

I keep expecting they'll reschedule marijuana for the desperate hail mary. You'd think it was perfect for him because in many ways it wouldn't really change the status quo of state-level legalization, but shows he's at least read a dorm room poster at some point in his life.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Because when Obama did it in 08, all those bitter moderates voted Republican.

And they're still shitty that it didn't stop Obama for daring to run against Hillary when it was her turn.

So for 16 years they've been repeating to themselves that a progressive candidate can't win because moderates will vote Republican. Even though the only time in modern history it happened, the progressive still flipped a bunch of red states in a huge win.

The people running the DNC are fucking terrible at getting Democrats elected, because they don't have the same idea of what a democratic candidate should be as what party voters think a candidate should be.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

How many troll headlines like this are young voters going to accept? Every headline like this just screams, "Young voters are to f*cking stupid to understand." Seriously trolls, this is the best you've got?

[+] [email protected] -10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I love how anything that's remotely anti-Biden or anti-Democrat gets downvoted around here... god forbid the "politics" sub is neutral...and not one-sided like Reddit...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm gonna go and check what are the top 3 posts for the past week in [email protected] and [email protected]

Okay fuck. None of it is anti Biden. However, story number 4 is "Nancy Pelosi Among 40 House Democrats Demanding Biden Halt Weapon Transfers to Israel." +486 upvotes, -15 downvotes

Seems like if it's criticism that makes sense, people are fine with it, and if it's just an excuse to throw poop nuggets at him, people don't like it. For example I'm not really aware of any significant contingent that thinks it's anything other than horrifying that Biden is supporting Israel in its genocide.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nancy Pelosi Among 40 House Democrats Demanding Biden Halt Weapon Transfers to Israel

This is why we cant trust them, they say one thing, then do another

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (5 children)

The user posting is known to post propaganda. If you've read the article, you'd see how one-sided it is. And if young people are turned off by both candidates, why is the article only discussing the supposed "young liberals" that aren't going to vote? Where are the young conservatives?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Is there some chance Biden might win Tennessee? Why do we care about what a bunch of 20 year olds in Tennessee specifically think?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (5 children)

This is true, TN will never vote Biden.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (15 children)

We don't. The news, however, does. Their mission is to get clicks, and shit like this gets clicks.

(I mean I didn't click on it, but in general I think it's far far more effective than updating people with what's going on with the Houthis or another story about how Trump is a crook or something like that.)

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

I suppose everyone has to regret something....

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They will have to live with the ramifications the longest. I suppose politics is always been that way where the least engaged suffer the most dire consequences

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Ironically, any negative consequences of their actions they'll deny. It's human nature. Whatever fiction they invent, as a justification, will simply benefit fascists, as lies always do. There are still NAZIs in Germany. Sadly it takes economic stability for the left and progressives to be able to fight back, and there isn't mush of that in the world.

[+] [email protected] -21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

They should refuse to participate in a system that does not represent them or their needs. It's not enough for Biden to say we are not trump when most of his policies are carried over from Trump or are variations of them. In 2020 they voted for Biden and got more of trump.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Feels like a broken record at this point

In 2020 they voted for Biden and got:

$150 billion in student loan forgiveness
Lowest unemployment in 20-50 years depending on how you count
Wealth inequality going down for the first time in I have no idea how long
Actual urgent effort to address climate change for the first time in US history
15% minimum corporate tax, Amazon paying higher taxes than they ever have before by quite a large margin (which is what funded most of the above)

And, that all happened despite absolutely rabid resistance from the Republicans at every turn.

A lot of people are still suffering, which makes it hard to feel like anything is good -- in particular, inflation is rising faster than wages at the top end of the scale, which makes it "feel" especially to people in the tech industry like the economy is still doing bad (which, it kind of is). However, wages for people who do housekeeping or manufacturing or etc are actually rising faster than inflation by quite a large margin -- that's incredibly unusual in the modern day even when inflation isn't spiking, and it's a direct result of some of Biden's policies like strengthening the NLRB or spending billions and billions of dollars of Amazon's money on domestic manufacturing.

The criticism of Biden over his criminal support for Israel is real and fair. Of course, he's at least making some limp little noises about maybe giving Netanyahu a stern talking to if he exceeds his dead children quota, whereas Trump just wants to kill all the Palestinians and ban Muslims from the country and maybe start with Hispanics too.

The mythology that people got betrayed who voted for Biden is very explicit propaganda; it has absolutely no grounding in the reality of what happened.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don't think housekeepers are seeing the increase. They say "the lower end" and I'm pretty sure it's talking about the new stronger contracts unions won through strikes and what not. That's not a ding on Biden.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Biden took some pretty unusual action to strengthen the NLRB, which is part of the reason unions have been having all these successes recently. It's not just the one or just the other; the battles the unions have been picking and the hard work they've been doing have been able to win them successes, and also they've also been getting legal and political backing that they usually haven't been getting, and each makes the other easier to do.

But also, yes, housekeepers are seeing the increase. Increases in wages for anyone tends to drive competition that drives up wages for everyone who's roughly in the same bracket and category. What I meant in talking about the lower end was overall US wage income at the 10th percentile; I was just using housekeeping as one random example. But yes:

Median housekeeping income in 2019 was $11.95/hr
Median housekeeping income in 2023 was $16.08/hr, an increase of 34.5%
Compounded inflation between those two points in time was 19.4%

The typical housekeeper therefore saw their wages beat inflation by 15.1 percentage points, even in a time of incredibly high inflation. That's fucking astoundingly unusual, even if it's invisible to most people who talk about politics and economics in Washington and on Lemmy.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

To be fair - abortion was also a huge issue and Biden has made no progress on that point. It doesn't help to deny his failures even if he has had quite a few successes (and it seems impossible that Biden could have actually addressed abortion rights in any meaningful way beyond what he did). That's a bar he set for himself.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Are you sure that the unfolding abortion disaster in this country currently is what you want to pick to argue the "it doesn't matter whether we elect Democrats or Republicans, because the outcome will be the same" thesis?

Think again. Are you sure? Because I'm happy to argue against that thesis if you're sure you want to stick with it. I think probably you can imagine what my argument will be without me even needing to say it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure how you got that out of what the guy wrote.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

TBH I think I read "Biden has made no progress" and "It doesn't help to deny his failures" and didn't read in depth much beyond that. I think you're right that it was unfair to assume; rereading it now, I just don't really understand what they actually meant. But yeah maybe it was unfair to assume what I did about what they're saying.

Like they say "it seems impossible that Biden could have actually addressed abortion rights in any meaningful way beyond what he did." Okay, agreed... So is it still a failure of his that I'm not acknowledging?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I think it's a very understandable failure from Biden as I personally don't believe stuffing the Supreme Court would be a reasonable approach, additionally Biden couldn't tell that Democrats would get swept in the midterms when he was elected.

That all said, Biden very much ran on abortion (in a "I'll fix it" way - not just "Trump will ban it nationally") so it is a promise he made that he couldn't keep. Do I blame Biden for the shortfall? No. Do I think Biden shouldn't have implied he'd reinstate abortion rights? Yes.

Anyways, come November I'm voting for Biden because otherwise Trump will absolutely, guaranteed, murder women through denying reasonable healthcare.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I try to just stay out of these conversations. Obviously failed here. :) I'm not a Biden fan by any stretch, but this election isn't even about policy. It's about staying a country under the Constitution, which is arguably on shaky ground, and full blown fascism. I get the people who thinks everything sucks and we need to blow it all up and start fresh, but trump is just following the German handbook from the 1930s. It's so clear, yet a significant part of our population not only doesn't care, but is cheering them on. The crazy gaslit feeling just continues on.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fuck off I absolutely do care and you can dig into my history if you doubt that I've advocated for voting for Biden even with all the flaws.
If you're going to deny obvious facts your words are meaningless. Don't infantilize the people you're talking to.
It's an effective communication technique to compromise on your position in an effort to convince others.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

I mean I'm not trying to be condescending or hostile about it even though I absolutely was. It just seemed like you were making an argument that made absolutely no sense. If you want to clarify because I've misunderstood something about what you're saying, I'm fine with that.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'd like to know exactly what policies you're referring to.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Let me ask you, how do you feel about the Patriot act? What about the no default student loans? What about the increase of incarcerations from a heighten war on drugs?

Why do you think voting for the guy who did all this just one more time is going to undo all of that when he spent his entire carrier catering to people even more right than the Democrats?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 7 months ago

They are also 'saving democracy' by passing warrantless spying

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't answer my question.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I named three of of his policies yes. You didn't answer mine.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Look buddy, you don't get it. I understand that you don't want chlamidya, but if you don't want gonorrhea you're going to have to make some though choices ok? And if not well it'll be you're fault were all getting chlamidya. Anyway, just one more vote bro, this is the most important election ever I swear! We'll fix it this time, I swear!

Man these right-wingers are annoying. I thought it would be better here on Lemmy than it used to be on Reddit, but I guess standard issue Americans are everywhere :/

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

You can either have AIDS, or else this milkshake that also has some rocks in it.

FTFY

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