this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2025
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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (10 children)

That's a dilemma. The kids and parents not having the challenges is great, but also people with Downs are often some of the best humans to exist.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago

Idk man, having down syndrome also gives you a much greater chance of things like heart defects. Life expectancy has improved recently to 50-60yrs old for them according to a quick search. I don't think there's a dilemma here at all. I wouldn't want a disease that decreases my lifespan.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I work with special needs adults. Your experiences, while valid, with many of those that arent so disabled that they actually can engage with society, do not represent those with more extreme versions of this disability.

Often they will never get to experience the fullness of life they could without. Basically, people with Downs who dont have caretakers with means are fucked pretty hard.

Of the 6 I interact with daily, I think they all would rather not have the disability, and 2 have said they would trade places with the guy in the wheel chair that has seizures sometimes, but is otherwise living a normal life.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I would agree with you on that as well. I do some volunteering with the special Olympics, have family members, etc. it's like you said and in these cases they are able to interact with the general public, maybe have basic jobs, live in group homes, and so forth.

I also agree they are fucked without support. I am not advocating for more people to have the disease so much as I wish more people had the vibes of the population I'm referencing.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think you have a super healthy view of this dilemma through your experience. As a person who has experienced the worst Down's has to offer with a very close relative, i can't imagine a happier thing they could have told my mother than, "your child doesn't have to be born with down's syndrome".

Due to religion, terminating the pregnancy was never an option, so a set of cosmic dice was spun in how positive or negative this experience would be. Let me tell you right now, I wouldn't wish my family's experience on anyone, and that breaks me apart to say more than I'm willing to admit.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 week ago (3 children)

But how would them not having the disease make them worse people?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 106 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The lab did specify that there's a looooong road between here and putting this in the clinic, but it's a good to see.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 week ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

God that was such a bad intro tune. Adding the acoustic guitar didn't help. Loved the show until they went full "Timecop".

Never go full Timecop.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Where is the line with eugenics being bad and it being good?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's a really deep pool, and I'm going to juuuust touch the edge here and say that consent should absolutely count, if they're in a condition to give informed consent. In general, I expect that people with disabilities would prefer to not have the disability, and I would love to give them that choice. What shouldn't happen, though, is people being changed or treated without their consent.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I mean, this will be used in utero waaaaay before it's applied to a full adult human. Far easier to change the cells when there are only a few, and they haven't already started to effect development.

But it's hard to get informed consent in utero.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Imo, then it's between the parents and the clinicians involved. My son has autism severe enough that it hinders his learning and his social growth and stuff. I go back and forth about whether he'll have the ability to live independently, or to have a partner and not beat the everloving shit out of them for what seems to be no reason. I love him, AND it's a burden for everyone in the family, not just him, not just us parents. If given the choice, yes, I absolutely would have chosen to give him the chance at a life where he doesn't spend every day frustrated by invisible barriers and possibly a life in prison or long term clinical detention (I forget the term) if we can't get him to manage his physical outbursts by the time he's an adult.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This isn’t eugenics. This is taking advantage of crispr to make genetic modifications.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I agree that it's not eugenics, at least not as we normally think of it, but it's definitely edging into GATTACA territory.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I mean, sure, if you ignore all of history. What if I was using CRISPR to prevent a child from being born black or brown?

Hell, what if I used it to keep a kid from being born deaf? The deaf community is one that's very outspoken about exactly that kind of treatment as a form of eugenics, as it is a potential existential threat to their culture.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Being born brown is not a disease. 😅

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago

What if I was using CRISPR to prevent a child from being born black or brown?

What if was used to prevent a child from being born with Spina bifada? What if it was used to correct SB so that the child wasn't aborted?

Hell, what if I used it to keep a kid from being born deaf?

Or what if its used to cure deafness after the effected person is no longer a minor?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This isn’t going to lead to eugenics. You are living in a capitalist environment this is going to lead to only a population with a certain amount of income is going to be allowed to use this technology. Eugenics is a vocal minority and everybody that goes with eugenics does not have a basis as its always been disapproved from psychology to biology. You can find patterns but nothing is perfect and everybody has quirks. Also race is a social construct so eugenics can be completely useless as your parents and direct lineage matters more than anything for your biology.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

I think it's presumptuous that only a certain income level is going to have access to this. It very much depends on the scalability of the treatment. Nearly everyone in the entire nation got the COVID vaccine, and those that didn't weren't due to lack of financial means. Just because you assert this will be reserved for the ultra wealthy doesn't make it so.

The rest of what you said is borderline unintelligible, but I'll give it a shot.

Sure, it would probably be difficult to "un-black" a baby or something, as there are a ton of genetic markers that inform what we think of as "blackness." But just because it's hard, doesn't mean it can't be done.

And you say that Eugenics "is a vocal minority," which I presume to mean that most people are anti-eugenics. But, as you say, we live in a capitalist hellscape. It would be entirely possible for a billionaire to run a "un-black your baby for a chance to win a million dollars" campaign (a'la the Elon Musk voting drive), and have that take off in a big way.

And all that assumes that people wouldn't be driven to it by simple desire for conformity. It's easy to justify a lot of things under the "my child would have a much better life if they just weren't... fill in the blank." In the modern climate as an example, there would probably be a lot of Hispanic people saying things like, "my child probably wouldn't get abducted by ICE if they just were more white passing." And that's terrible, obviously, but I guarantee it would happen. Not every mother. Not even a majority. But a good number would.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

But what does bodily autonomy mean when this will almost certainly be primarily used in utero? Should I be able to use CRISPR to keep my baby from being born with Downs?

Should I be able to use it to make my baby less prone to other diseases? Make them taller?
Change their race? Add interesting modifications that I think would be cool, like an extra set of arms or gills or something?

What does bodily autonomy mean for a fetus?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Abortions are also in utero. And it's not the choice of the child to be born either. Or a lot of the choices guardians make in stead of their children. Legally and ethically this shouldn't be something you can stop them from choosing, even if I'm personally against such modifications for the reasons you're probably thinking of too. If you say "we should stop gene modifications to prevent the loss of gene diversity risking great public health concern for our population", that is also eugenics.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Should I be able to use CRISPR to keep my baby from being born with Downs?

Yes, absolutely yes. Downs children are wonderful, there's one in my family, but I can say without hesitation that both he and his parents would have used a treatment like this if it was available. He's 30 now and he himself would choose to do it if it was available.

What does bodily autonomy mean for a fetus?

Doesn't matter.

[–] [email protected] 117 points 1 week ago (6 children)

This is from the future I always dreamed about, amazing

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