this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
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    "Together we'll make X great again!" (discuss.tchncs.de)
    submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
    33 comments fedilink hide all child comments
     

    Context: X11Libre is a fork of X11 aiming at preserving the X Server (fair enough, right?). One of the creators got permanently banned from freedesktop.org for apparently violating the Code of Conduct (no info on that, they just blame Red Hat), see themselves as hunted by both Big Tech and "toxic elements" who "took over the X11 project" They want to "make X great again".

    The issue about their highly political README (which they wrote due to the original project "becoming too political", lol) also contains the usual red flags like transphobia. https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/40

    top 33 comments
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    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago

    1000004194 Why did the discussion turned into distro advertisement?

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    X11 was never great.

    (Like seriously, it's nothing but config files you have to edit from the local console shell and and proprietary stuff from nvidia that misbehaves, all the way down. Always has been.)

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

    it's nothing but config files you have to edit from the local console shell

    Some people seem to love that, as well as the total lack of any kind of access control or security. I mean, look at how many people are still arguing that "Systemd is destroying Linux", clinging to initd with all its bash scripts and no nice way to prevent race conditions and such.

    To roughly quote someone from a talk (not sure where I heard that, was about systemd as well I think):

    "We nerds are very good at change when we're the ones proposing it, but very bad when it comes from the outside."

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    Of course Lunduke is a fan rolls eyes

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    What is that guys deal?

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    Idk but in his thumbnails he always looks like he has to take a shit

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    Probably rips a bong before taking a photo.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

    If only he did, maybe he would be a bit more chill

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    Very typical projection ("I'm not political, you are"), but the reactions are unnecessary in my opinion (feeding the trolls as some would say). If you don't like the attitude of the maintainer, fork it if you like, ignore it if you don't.

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    I mean, it's funny to laugh at nazis.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    I miss the days when the OS community found -often painful- ways to deal with excentric or even toxic and erratic developers. That definitely had more class than conformist mobs celebrating each character assassination of somebody disagreeing. Not that I'd support any anti-vax bullshit or bigotry, I just dislike mobs of holier-than-thous. Because they aren't holy or as "good" as they think they are. IMO they're just the sort of people waiting for a reason to get their torches and pitchforks. I don't think that's any better, morally, or less intolerant than having unhinged opinions.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    I miss the days when we tolerated assholes and bigots instead of calling them out.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

    You're not calling out anyone here. That has happened elsewhere. You're nothing but gossiping about it. You're not the defenders of anything but spiteful, ugly people.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    "No, go away."

    That's a perfectly valid way to deal with toxic contributors. There's always people with better social skills and equal developer skills out there, you don't have to accept and include toxic people just because they wrote some code.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    Just alienate them more and they will get better on their own.... Right?

    I think the guy you're responding to is saying that communication and not alienation is how we bring these people out of whatever holes they've dug themselves into.

    I know hes getting downvoted a ton, but if my take on what he wrote is correct then I also agree with him.

    The reason the world is so divided right now is because nobody wants to talk through things with open minds and with empathy.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

    "Meet me in the middle" says the unjust man.
    You take a step towards him, he takes a step back.
    "Meet me in the middle" says the unjust man.

    You can't engage such people in good faith, and it's impossible to convince them to adopt a different viewpoint. People much smarter than you have tried and failed.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

    I don't doubt it... but there has to be some way to pull people back from the hole they've dug themselves into. Straight up ignoring them seems counterproductive, but you're right... I'm not an expert and im sure people have tried

    It just feels sad and frustrating to me as well. This guy obviously seems to have some talent but got sucked into something that overshadows his talent with just plain idiocy on things he doesn't know anything about it seems like...

    Really sad times

    Edit: just read the article you sent. This was particularly in the case of sending out messaging where people can't have a discussion back with you.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

    The thing is, that there must be some corner from which you can start arguing. Rightwing ideology is in itself a relatively complete world image, where everything that does not fit into their world is a lie. If someone is willing to actually listen to you, discuss in a civilised manner and tries to understand what your point is, than you can have long and exhausting discussions slowly but steadily deconstructing the persons world view.

    However, if the discussions consists of "this is woke and a lie" and they are not willing to listen to you, than theres nothing you can do for them. Trist me, my parents are conspiracy theorists and I gave up in them. I Am willing to start arguing with them, if they are ever willing to come back into society, but for now their whole social group consists of conspiracy theorists and they are not willing to understand how science works, so any discussion is pointless.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

    I do think that even with the "this is woke I'm not listening" crowd it's possible. You need to practice active listening to get in the door though. Tell them what you hear and explain it in your words. Sometimes you hear wrong and sometimes they realize how dumb it sounds when you repeat it again.

    Idk it seems totally possible... A lot of work.... But possible. Aside from raising my kids to think correctly and be good people that's the only other way I can benefit society / the people around me. I just listen and challenge, and try to keep my personal feelings out of it initially.

    It just really feels like people want everything distilled into a 30s tiktok video and its really hard to see everything go that direction..

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/40#issuecomment-2963760417

    Yeah, that's not great, is it

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

    O.m.f.g.

    What even..

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

    If you want to know more about how unhinged the dude is, I recommend reading this email thread in the DNG mailing list.

    [–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Found more context, for who is now curious:

    • Apparently threatening violence with guns is okay (just got marked as "off-topic").
    • The maintainer of X11Libre, Enrico Weigelt, is an anti-vaxer who already got scolded by Torvalds for writing bullshit on the kernel mailing list

    The more I read into X11Libre, the more I'm laughing. Now the freedesktop ban also makes perfect sense.

    [–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    The maintainer of X11Libre, Enrico Weigelt, is an anti-vaxer who already got scolded by Torvalds for writing bullshit on the kernel mailing list

    Oh, so it's him. Dude got absolutely lucky Linus is on mild mode nowadays. On his prime the scold would've been of such epic proportions all the viruses he could have on his body would've leave him out of pure cringe.

    [–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Linus has good values, by he's also a toxic asshole that surrounded himself with other toxic assholes. And that's why both immoral people and nice people eventually get shown the door / leave the Linux project.

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    He's gotten a lot better

    [–] [email protected] -2 points 3 weeks ago

    Eh... Too little, too late.

    [–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    He used to be, but he has become surprisingly chill from what I've seen. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm under the impression that "no compiler warnings" thing, as well as the introduction of C11 and Rust played a role in that. In all three instances he made an open minded decision, all of them after he realised he was wrong on numbers one and two

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    He absolutely admits when he's wrong (as soon as he realizes anyway). I think it's part of his "no bullshit" value extending to himself.

    His outbursts were always with good reason. But you don't need to belittle and scorn people to enforce values in a community. You don't need to be an ass. He was, and attracted people like him, and now it's darn near impossible to turn that culture around. At last not until a lot of the assholes like Ted retire.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Honestly, I'm fully on board of this development. It might be useful for those distros that can't move to Wayland and, more importantly, can keep the developers far from everything else.

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    Actually... X11 is still maintained and there are forks of X11 like Xenocara from OpenBSD.

    [–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

    Lol, how will they get any contributions if they explicitly say that trans girls are not welcome? You know who run the internet?

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

    The project will either die through lack of interest or over-availability of cringe. There's no way for it to succeed with this MAGA nonsense and threats plastered all over it, they'd have a hard time finding enough devs even without alienating everyone except Fox News viewers. Meanwhile they'll feel confirmed in their worldview due to all the rightful criticism flooding in.

    If the project survives this initial phase of antipathy we'll probably get years of cringe from it.