Sure, let's release organisms with precisely engineered advantages into our ecosystems, nothing could go wrong.
this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2024
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This implication has two problems:
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This handling of new technology's has always been like that. The first nuclear reactor was build bevor they knew if it even works. No body thought twice about the danger. The difference here is that it benefits poor people more than rich so most people don't care really.
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In the case of most non-competitive mutations we know exactly what happens. Because this argument is so old, we now have detailed study's on gene mobility like vitamin A enzymes. Because the plant can't use that much of it, the gene is silenced very quickly. That means that your crops will yield yellow and white seeds. The farmers have to plant only yellow ones ore the genes can hardly be found on his field after a few generations.
No technology inherently benefits poor or rich people. If this is used commercially, it will cause ecological harm, because the people using it make no money from caring about ecological impact.
Also I'm mainly annoyed at the idea that more precise genetical engineering = less danger.
The problem isn't GMO, the problem is the type of changes big agritech is making.
Take, e.g. Clearfield Rapeseed: It's a herbicide-resistant strain, non-GMO, bred by BASF, and resistant against Clearfield, another BASF product. Thing is: Rapeseed is a brassicaceae, and they really like to exchange genes cross-species. There's tons of wild plants ("weeds") that are brassicaceae, in fact if you don't happen to be growing it rapeseed itself is a rather nasty weed. Which means that once that resistance is out there that stuff can't be killed by stuff that doesn't kill literally everything. Brassicaecae seeds can also stay dormant in the soil for years, making it even more nasty.
My state's agricultural ministry got wind of the stuff, quickly decided "that's insane we need to outlaw it", then quickly hit their head against the EU legislation which doesn't distinguish by impact on nature or environment or economy, but by GMO status. Instead they then flooded farmers with brochures telling them just in how much shit they would be should that stuff escape from their fields and other farmers demand compensation for loss of income etc.
The thing is: That stuff doesn't even make sense for BASF. "Sell resistant strain and a herbicide along with it" makes a lot of sense for chemical companies (and all big agritech are chemical companies), "spread that resistance throughout the whole environment" doesn't because who's going to buy their herbicide when it becomes ineffective. They really dropped the ball on that one, failed ecology 101.
Speaking of "we've got a hammer, where are the nails": Golden rice. The problem isn't that rice doesn't contain carotene, the problem is that there's people so piss-poor they can't afford half a carrot, onion, some garlic, and a spoon of beans with their bowl of rice. If you want a solution that is the problem to fix.
This is the kind of stuff actually modern agritech comes up with, problem being: It's not a thing you can earn money with as a company as there's no products to sell, definitely none you have a monopoly on, so those companies have literally zero incentive to research that kind of thing. Farmers don't have the funds (even in the west, they're getting squeezed by supermarkets and Nestle etc), but you know what, states already have universities. Give them a couple of fields to mess around with and you'll be surprised by what they come up with.
That is irrelevant to the effective ban on gene-editing and CRISPR though. They can do the same thing with hybrids, etc.
I do agree with some of your post though, but even efforts to control fertiliser over-use are really difficult to manage.
That is irrelevant to the effective ban on gene-editing and CRISPR though. They can do the same thing with hybrids, etc.
Anti-GMO sentiment was able to get so big because people know that there's something fishy going on with industrialised agriculture, and a ban was easy to enact because it's saying "not more of that stuff" and "shut up bloody lobbyists". It was politically possible even if misguided and not doing it would've been worse, not (necessarily) in terms of agriculture but politics and with that the future of agriculture: It's high time the regime changes to an impact assessment and doesn't only cover GMO but also conventionally bred crops, but without the current GMO rules it'd be practically impossible to enact against the agritech lobby flanked by under-informed farmers.
I do agree with some of your post though, but even efforts to control fertiliser over-use are really difficult to manage.
Fertiliser over-use is currently solving itself: Fertiliser costs lots of money and no farmer wants to use more than necessary and you can get systems that analyse a satellite image and program your machine to deposit the stuff exactly where it's needed, and only there, off the shelf.
Of course better soil management and ending import-dependent agriculture completely is a much better idea (phosphorous mines won't last forever and why the hell aren't you pulling your nitrogen out of the air), but at least stuff will be able to live in drainage canals. Editing nitrogen fixing into a crop would be an interesting idea. Or engineering a symbiote that can do it to get along well with the crop, that kind of thing.
I think EU should start creating genetic enhanced Seeds. Let's not have a private Company do this. And once the Seeds are developed, make everything public and drop the patent. So everyone can produce them.
I have no Idea if this is how Things like this work, tho.
I think the EU should fund the research and disallow genetic patents, but allow companies to do the production themselves.
TL;dr they kinda already do.
As of September 2014, the European Union had authorized 49 GMO crops, which include various types of GM maize, cotton, oilseed rapes, soybeans, a sugar beet, bacterial biomass, and yeast biomass. The seeds are developed by private companies, however applications for the authorization of a GMO for cultivation must be submitted to a competent authority in an EU Member State. Then, the report is sent to the European Commission and other EU Member States for even more checks. The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) also can intervene if they believe it could be hazardous.
so yea, not a perfect world, but close enough
Bureaucracy destroys innovation.
Meanwhile in the US they have https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/this-genetically-engineered-petunia-glows-in-the-dark-and-could-be-yours-for-29/
The EU risks becoming a scientific backwater compared to the US and China.
We're already decades behind SpaceX, Waymo, and the genetic engineering work.
petunias
Wood co-founded Light Bio with two of the researchers behind this work, Karen Sarkisyan, a synthetic biologist at the MRC Laboratory of Medical Sciences in London, and Ilia Yampolsky, a biomolecular chemist at the Pirogov Russian National Research Medical University in Moscow.
Aha. It's true that it's easy to get money for startups in the US doesn't mean that the US comes close to Europe when it comes to primary research.
Waymo
wake me when Waymo is cleared for level 4 autonomous driving in a jurisdiction that doesn't simply rubber-stamp anything silicon valley does.
SpaceX
ESA is on a different development cadence than SpaceX, it's not like they haven't done the maths on reusable rockets: Back when the current gen was developed it would've been more expensive per rocket. Also SpaceX's launch prices are subsidised by the US government overpaying for their launches.
But people can actually use Waymo right now - that's the biggest proof you need.
ESA doesn't yet have re-usable rockets period.
The Falcon 9 is a decade ahead, nevermind Starship.
And now look at Neuralink's achievements too.
But people can actually use Waymo right now - that’s the biggest proof you need.
No I can't.
ESA doesn’t yet have re-usable rockets period.
The Falcon 9 is a decade ahead, nevermind Starship.
Ariane 5 is almost 30 years old. Only a decade ahead is kinda disappointing. As to reusable: It's a matter of economics, not technology.
And now look at Neuralink’s achievements too.
Taking genes from a frog and putting them in corn seems like something that should get a bit of additional scrutiny
It’s all fun and games until the electric fences go down and the tyrannosaurs escape!
I wonder if there are any good reasons for that. Let's ask the internet.
Well, surly this technology is used to improve the crops to be resistant to weed pressure and not just to sell more herbicides. Let's ask the internet.
Ok, but at least farmers can reuse the resistant crops and don't have to buy hybrid seeds every year because these new plants are genetically stable.
Almost all of these criticisms are basically “GMOs are somehow considered tainted or something, so we need to prevent them from mixing with non-GMOs” which an ideological premise, not based on facts.
Regarding herbicides/pedicures: actually GMO eggplants in Bangladesh save lives because they need less spraying.
So all that's left is policy issues and FUD. And political problems have political solutions.
The post says that targeted mutagenesis is safer than non targeted. The criticism you mentioned - very one sided btw - holds true for both cases. You are right with your criticism on GMO's but radioactivity Is a worse option than Crispr.
I admit, my arguments were cherry picked. I just wanted to provide a few counter examples to show that there are reasons for being skeptical of GMO crops. My biggest concern actually isn't food safety or environmental impacts but the previously mentioned intellectual property implications. I don't want Bayer to own certain genes making it illegal to plant seeds from apples I bought at the store.
Wait, do you think non-gmo variants don't have IP laws applied to them?
No, unfortunately it does. GMO crops could make this even worse because they may pass their genes to wild plants through gene flow. The 'owner' of that gene could then require a licensing deal for the use of these plants as well.
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