"falling inflation" means prices are still rising...the rate of increase is what has decreased. What we need is negative inflation...or said differently, price decrease.
this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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What you are describing is deflation and it's only happened twice during the history of the United States. It is also generally looked at as a bad thing.
Is inflation generally looked at as a good thing or a bad thing? Ive only ever heard people complain about inflation.
If they are both bad things im willing to give the bad thing that improves my life a try over the bad thing that makes everything more expensive.
Granted i have nothing so im probably on the side of things that is least effected by the bad side of deflation.
If i can spend more money on the things i want to, it will absolutely help small local businesses near me
A small amount of inflation is healthy. You REALLY want to avoid deflation, because that means the value of your money is increasing. If people know their money will be worth more in the future, they won't spend it, incentivized to save and sit on it. That means on average everyone spends less, slowing the economy down and starting into a recession/depression.
Gonna slap this with the good old "I am not an economist" disclaimer, juat what I remember from economics class in high school
What you learned in high school puts you miles ahead of 99% of these comments
No one is asking for deflation. They're asking for wages that don't decrease every year due to inflation and companies not giving raises or giving raises so small that it's still a pay decrease since it's not keeping up with inflation.
Wages are now out pacing inflation. So it sounds like you're saying your gloomy about the economy because the president hasnt come in and forced your boss to give you a raise, or hand you a different job with more pay.
Where are you that minimum wages are going up?
Oh, I thought we were talking about actual wages, not the minimum wage. I'm not even sure how that makes sense in the context.
Most of the places around me pay way less than the actual cost of living, like the average is maybe $12 an hour max but I'd say it's more like $10. Cost of living estimates vary but for a single adult it's often around $2500/month, which is far more than you'll make working at almost anywhere here full time. Even worse, most establishments are actually choosing to short-staff themselves to save money, so most aren't even looking to increase employment.
So you can work full time and still not have enough to just survive, then if you want to do university/trade school and aren't elligible for e.g. HOPE then you could have to pick up 2 full time jobs and still somehow have the time/energy left to do college (which most people wouldn't after that and would just drop out). Some people are able to live with family to reduce or eliminate the housing cost, and a few people are privileged enough to have their family pay for their whole college, but if that's not the case you're completely fucked.
And this is in suburban/rural Georgia. I can only imagine how shit it is for someone who can't afford college, a car, whatever else in a shitty place like Texas or Florida.
One of the things that frustrates me the most about this site (and reddit but it seems even worse here) is the inability of people to follow the context.
The article is about how people, wide spread, are rating the economy as poor despite good economic data. The top level comment is talking about not wanting deflation, but rising wages so they don't lose out to inflation. I point out that wages are rising and outpacing inflation, so by the metric they used the economy is doing well. Then someone inexplicably brings in the minimum wage (FTR, "Workers in the bottom pay quartile also saw median "real" income gains of 6% since 2019, more than the rest of the income distribution."[https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-job-market-softens-gains-minority-groups-hang-balance-2023-11-27/#:~:text=Workers%20in%20the%20bottom%20pay,rest%20of%20the%20income%20distribution] But who cares about the facts? They don't really mean anything anymore.). I point out that this isn't about the minimum wage (BTW, I agree that it should be raised) and people still go off on how in their anecdotal experience minimum wage is not enough to get by.
It's like anything to ignore reality. It's the same ridiculousness I see from conservatives when I'm debating climate change: just ignore the facts, cherry-pick some data, throw in some anecdotes, and try to reframe the debate.
It's the subjective experience of not seeing the wage growth themselves, combined with things not being acceptable for a longer time than Biden or Trump's presidency. Things are improving right now, but haven't caught up to people having economic security. When you've sunk deep enough, it takes a longer period of rising to finally catch a breath. Basically, the current growth must sustain for longer to get more people into a good position. If things continue on their current path, people will calm down.
It's also true that necessities like housing have inflated in price far faster than other goods, again, for longer than a decade. Unnecessary goods might be cheaper than ever, but you NEED things like shelter and there are NO alternatives. Despite good competition, the demand is inelastic, so limited excess supply translates to soaring prices, plus, other factors are at play.
It also isn't a good idea ignore subjective experiences in general. Not only are people almost always right to be unhappy on some level, invalidating their lived experiences isn't a good idea. Democrats will not be successful if they don't listen to people's displeasure. Basic economic measures are essential, but not sufficient to make voters happier.
There's not much I disagree with in your post. However, this all stems from a poster saying that (effectively) they don't want deflation, but for wages to out-pace inflation, and I pointed out that this is already happening. By their own metric they should be happy with the economy, even if they haven't personally benefitted from it, but instead they are unhappy with it but that's based on a false belief.
It also isn’t a good idea ignore subjective experiences in general. Not only are people almost always right to be unhappy on some level, invalidating their lived experiences isn’t a good idea. Democrats will not be successful if they don’t listen to people’s displeasure. Basic economic measures are essential, but not sufficient to make voters happier.
And this is basically what the article is all about, that the economy is actually going in the right direction, but everyone thinks it isn't. Spreading the false belief that we are still in situation where inflation is out-pacing wages is just further spreading the false belief that is making people upset. I get that people still have a ways to go before they make up for what was lost to inflation, but being constantly grim about the state of the economy for bad reasons isn't helping anyone. It's probably just making it worse.
And this is basically what the article is all about, that the economy is actually going in the right direction, but everyone thinks it isn’t. Spreading the false belief that we are still in situation where inflation is out-pacing wages is just further spreading the false belief that is making people upset. I get that people still have a ways to go before they make up for what was lost to inflation, but being constantly grim about the state of the economy for bad reasons isn’t helping anyone. It’s probably just making it worse.
Okay, so this actually misses how this "false belief" has spread.
The thing about inflation is it doesn't go away when it goes down. There hasn't been deflation, so when prices rose they just stayed high even as inflation cooled. It doesn't matter that prices aren't rising as fast as they were before because the prices are still high. Wages, on the other hand, lagged behind inflation for so long that they're still behind even if the rates are more even now. This has to keep up for several years to give wages have time to catch up; until then people are still going to be mad about inflation even if it is getting better.
Wages, on the other hand, lagged behind inflation for so long that they’re still behind even if the rates are more even now.
This is what I meant when I said:
I get that people still have a ways to go before they make up for what was lost to inflation
But, again, the claim is that they just want wages that won't be beaten by inflation (again, effectively) and that is the case now. So what they want is what is happening now, yet still unhappy. Your post is a movement of the goal-posts. I get it that it still sucks, but we're going in the right direction, especially on the point they made. This should result in a more cheery-outlook for people basing their opinion on wages out-pacing inflation.
They want the pain to stop now. That's my point. Only people with a financial cushion can sit around and wait for things to get better, everyone else is suffering. People are not going to be patient for relief.
Because it's a bullshit narrative. Cost of living keeps going up. But inflation doesn't count rent, groceries, or gas.
Rent is going to go up as long as it's able.
As soon as people have more money to spend, landlords increase rent.
Renting is one of the biggest scams this generation has convinced itself into falling for.
lol yeah dude, I convinced myself to rent
I mean, you live in a major city so yeah.
You're probably never going to leave major cities, nor are you ever going to own property in them.
Yeah. You convinced yourself to rent.
I live in rural Iowa wtf are you talking about? We rent out here too!
I actually am paying off my trailer, though, so someday I could maybe put this on a piece of rural property somewhere and do remote work or something? But like, I never chose this shit - I just stayed where I grew up and got a factory job when my neurosis and undiagnosed dysphoria caused me to flunk out of college. I guess I could go squat in the woods though lol
Because interest rates are insane trapping people in homes they no longer want but can't afford to leave?
Speaking of... My car got totalled at the end of October, shopping for a new one, I saw interest rates for me between 7 and 8%, for other folks, I saw one as high as 12.25%(!) On a CAR LOAN.
Because interest rates are insane trapping people in homes they no longer want but can’t afford to leave?
I'm in this comment and I don't like it.
Least you got a home. I am on a very long lease and landlord is getting offers. I got about 2.5 years until someone just offers him a million bucks in cash. Then I am out thousands of dollars in moving expense plus changing my kids school. Plan to fight it but I am sure I will lose.
Sorry bro.
Try to own property as quickly as you can. Unfortunately, even the market for that has gone to shit thanks to investment companies.
This is what we get for breeding for greed. Gotta stop rewarding shitbags just because they have money and start holding them accountable for how they got it.
It won't happen, though, lol. These problems won't get solved just like global warming 🤷. We don't want to solve them.
Well there's one way to solve these problems 🤠👉
Because the 'numbers' that neoliberals have decided are the indicators of a "good" economy mean almost nothing to, in all likely hood, 95% of Americans.
Measuring the right thing leads to inconvenient conclusions (age till retirement, income at retirement, income independence, buying power, home ownership, business ownership, union membership, etc.)