A friendly place to chat.
No politics please. Don't be a dick.
I first got harassed on public transport when I was 11. For years getting on public transport involved being hyper vigilant and trying to hide. And it's fucking exhausting. I shouldn't have to be relieved that I'm too old to harass, and really it's no relief because it just means they're harassing someone else.
Without revealing too much, my mother was a women's rights activist for a short while when I was younger (in the mid-90s).
She was abused by a priest within the Asian community, and was told (like many women before her) to keep quiet, since the norm was to blame the woman for being abused. My mother said fuck that, and spoke up. She was on every major TV station giving interviews, she was on Kilroy twice (was a very popular talk show here in the UK), shook hands with Princess Diana, etc.
The reason I bring that up, is due to one time when she would go on a local radio station and provide her phone number live on air, telling women to contact her, that she would go through the pranks and spam if there was the chance of victims coming through.
The amount of women experiencing every day harassment was something that I just cannot forget, as a young man knowing the extent of what women go through in regards to daily harassment really helped shape my understanding. It is a real issue that I believe a lot of men are simply unaware of as nothing of that sort happens to us. I've met countless women who have told me they are afraid to wear dresses that are shorter than down to their ankles, in fear of being groped. In 2024 this shouldn't be a thing but here we are.
These signs are, unfortunately, needed to raise some awareness. It's not an issue that faces me directly, but man it definitely is an issue for a lot of women out there. Getting MUCH better, however still something that needs to be acknowledged imho.
Probably yes, but also these "stop crime" ads make people more afraid and make the police state worse. Especially "see it, say it, sorted" gives me the creeps
It's also a part of "no broken windows" theatre. The story says that if there's an abandoned house in the neighborhood and hooligans break one window, it must be covered up as fast as possible, otherwise, they are going to smash all the windows because they do not fear being seen anymore.
All of those traffic tickets, small fines for petty crime, etc. are designed to reinforce the idea of "we're watching you, obey the law" because if you can get away with small crimes, you will be more likely to commit more serious ones.
Personally, I don't like it, but a lot of petty government functionaries subscribe to this philosophy and that's why we can't have nice things.
“stop crime” ads make people more afraid and make the police state worse
Can you explain this for me?
Human beings are really bad at understanding statistics. Generally crime is trending down in the long term. Statistically, the world is a much safer place when it comes to interpersonal violence.
These facts are harder for us to grasp than the flashy, shocking "if it bleeds, it leads" news story. People's anecdotal knowledge of the world tends to beat out the statistics we read when we shape our perspective of the world. That leads to frequent mismatches between what people believe the world is like and what the world is actually like.
A prime example of this is the "stranger danger" public awareness campaign in the US. The effort encouraged parents to be wary of strangers that may abduct their child. The problem is that the vast and overwhelming majority of child abductions are perpetrated by family members or by individuals known to the family - not strangers.
Across the US the "anecdotal" event of being frightened by a stranger danger TV ad had a strong impact on the perceptions of many parents. A lot of those people continued to believe that the greatest risk of kidnapping came from strangers even after the (correct) contradictory statistics became widely publicized. Similarly, these "stop crime" ads can frighten people just a little bit at imagining the scenario they describe. This experience can shape perception in a large and lasting way and make people perceive the problem as being more prevalent than it is.
OP is pointing out. That historically police states. (IE states where law enforcement has been given to much power).
Start by creating fear among the populace. A population with an over active idea of how common crime is. Will be more willing to support governments that control them.
Which is is daft when you can simply look up the stats.
The reason there are so many posters is sure to political pressure and a marginal rise in figures https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8829ked1x3o
Agree fully with your examples.
But given the long history of refusal to address both violence to and harassment of women. Seems this is the one case where ensuring people pay attention and help. Can only be a good thing.
Yes. How the fuck is this even a question?
Also, they're not saying *"Oi, step in if you see someone being harassed on this train but anywhere else, feel free to cheer the offender on as normal." TFL just have better leadership than the country does, so they're running the campaign.
I think so, yes. I had to step in when I saw a small group of men who appeared in their mid/late 20's harassing a teenage girl at Victoria fairly recently. Ads like this not only make it clear that it's unacceptable but it also empowers bystanders to get involved.
I'd much rather see this than any of the commercial adverts.
It is useful information too. Most people won't interrupt or help, and partly because they are not sure how. I saw this recently and it did make me think, if I did see something happening I have a better idea of how I can help.
It also creates an environment where you cannot justify not acting because you don't think you can help, and that we as a society are saying it is not acceptable. If one person challenges harassment that would not have done so before seeing that, I'd count it as a success.
Stuff like this helps pull people out of the bystander effect which is what you’re describing. It gives everyone a call to action, either actively asking a question or silently reporting it, which is pretty rad.
Counterquestion: How much sexual harrasment do you think is ok before these kinds of ads are justified?
And another one: What would you replace these ads with?
To be honest, this is one of those ads that are actually useful. When I was riding the underground (different city than London), most of the ads were either some inane webshop crap, or "sell your blood plasma for 600 EUR a month".
Even if it wasn't commonplace, ads like this keep us vigilant and (assuming they can read) should deter the predatory types.
Apparently sexual harassment on public transportation in the UK has risen by 63% since 2019:
I wonder what else has increased significantly during that time...
Racism, apparently
Yea, your willingness to hate white people to the point you literally fetishise backwards cultures where they see nothing at all wrong with sexual harassment and rape. Even when women are suffering tremendously under the results of your misguided white-saviour complex you still can't understand your errors of judgment.
I have been harassed and abused by white men waaayyy more than I have by black or brown men. And that's even with living in very diverse places.
Immigration is not the problem. Men are. But I guess you're going to get triggered by that kind of broad generalisation huh?
You appear to understand that even if that is how you personally feel it isn't the actual truth of the world.
Idk sounds pretty racist
I bet it does to you.
Lots of new neo-Nazi groups.
Inflation is way up.
Dog whistles are becoming increasingly popular
Olive oil prices have increased by over 50% the last few years.
Stand up paddle boarding is showing an 800% increase in interest said the UK.
British Transport Police (BTP) received 421 reports of harassment between April and October, up from 259 over the same period in 2019.
I have no idea how to put these numbers or that percentage into perspective. Of course, even one case is one too much, I just don't know what's the threshold where people can feel safe or how it compares to just walking on the street or whatnot.
I strongly suspect it's underreported as well. Speak to enough women and you hear distressingly familiar stories about public harassment. I think attitudes have improved somewhat since my mum's days (avoiding being grouped on the train to school was apparently just one of those things) but still has a long way to go.
I think less than one case is probably the goal.
I view that statistic in reality as 6 people, I'm assuming mostly women, getting sexually harassed every day, creating a culture of harassment that even if you don't get harassed that day, you know that half a dozen other people just like you were sexually harassed that day, and yesterday, and tomorrow.
By putting up that sign of awareness, hopefully fewer people will view reporting sexual harassment or mentioning it at all as taboo so that everyone can help push the number back down and further down past prepandemic levels.
Male so my view is at best a guess.
But I imagine being harrased on a moving and often crowded train where you limited option to remove yourself from the event. While also facing fear the passengers will judge you rather then the harrassor.
Likely means any event is more stressful.
Across countries, social borders, faiths, genders, ethnicities, age groups, sexual harassment seems to crop up when the opportunity presents itself.
Yes