this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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The revived No JS Club celebrates websites that don't use Javascript, the powerful but sometimes overused code that's been bloating the web and crashing tabs since 1995. The No CSS Club goes a step further and forbids even a scrap of styling beyond the browser defaults. And there is even the No HTML Club, where you're not even allowed to use HTML. Plain text websites!

The modern web is the pure incarnation of evil. When Satan has a 1v1 with his manager, he confers with the modern web. If Satan is Sauron, then the modern web is Melkor [1]. Every horror that you can imagine is because of the modern web. Modern web is not an existential risk (X-risk), but is an astronomic suffering risk (S-risk) [2]. It is the duty of each and every man, woman, and child to revolt against it. If you're not working on returning civilization to ooga-booga, you're a bad person.

A compromise with the clubs is called for. A hypertext brutalism that uses the raw materials of the web to functional, honest ends while allowing web technologies to support clarity, legibility and accessibility. Compare this notion to the web brutalism of recent times, which started off in similar vein but soon became a self-subverting aesthetic: sites using 2.4MB frameworks to add text-shadow: 40px 40px 0px hotpink to 400kb Helvetica webfonts that were already on your computer.

I also like the idea of implementing "hypotext" as an inversion of hypertext. This would somehow avoid the failure modes of extending the structure of text by failing in other ways that are more fun. But I'm in two minds about whether that would be just a toy (e.g. references banished to metadata, i.e. footnotes are the hypertext) or something more conceptual that uses references to collapse the structure of text rather than extend it (e.g. links are includes and going near them spaghettifies your brain). The term is already in use in a structuralist sense, which is to say there are 2 million words of French I have to read first if I want to get away with any of this.

Republished Under Creative Commons Terms. Boing Boing Original Article.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

You are using ASCII? Weak. True website surfers use raw character values, like The Matrix in 1999.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 days ago (7 children)

What we need is a subset of modern web, without any bloat, especially JS frameworks.

A lot of websites can be static HTML + CSS.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

No HTML should rather do all-Commonmark instead, imo. Background color and text width & stuff should not be your (the creators) business but my (the users) business only. But some basic styling is nice.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

i guess Commonmark is the same thing as Markdown?

in that case, this is why i love the fediverse (especially lemmy) so much: comments and posts are simple markdown.

it comes quite close to the principle of distributing content in the way of markdown articles.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 days ago

Pfff, that's nothing. My club doesn't even have a website.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

How do you use hyperlinks without HTML?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If you want to know copy and paste this link into your browser: text.only

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Jesus. This is getting out of hand.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Forces one to avoid deep links and parameter crap. I'm sorta two minds about this.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

We can go further. We could take away your fancy "URL"s and just use IP addresses for navigation.

Heck, we could do away with TCP/IP altogether and network over serial. It's a perfectly functional protocol with several baud rates to choose from. I like ol' reliable 9600, but I sometimes dabble in 115200 when I'm feeling adventurous.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

Back in school my friends all flashed their mcus with 4-8MB images over serial with 115200 baud. I set up ota updates over wifi. They were all fascinated by my speedy flashes. However when I offered to help them set it up, not one was interested because their setup was working as is and slow flashing is not a "bad" thing since it gave them an excuse to do other things.

We are talking minutes vs seconds here.

The teachers were surprised by my quick progress and iterations. When I told them my "trick" the gave me bonus points but also were not interested in learning how to do ota which was very easy. A simple 20 minute first time setup would have saved sooo much time during the year.

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 3 days ago (4 children)

"No HTML club" is kinda going too far on the Web. If you go there you might as well start a No HTTP Club and serve stuff over Gopher and FTP.

But we definitely need an HTML 2.0 Club.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

HTML 2.0 doesn't have tables, and tables are not so bad, even org-mode has tables.

Since HTML 4.01 was a thing when I first saw a website:

Being able to have buttons is good. Buttons with pictures too.

And, unlike some people, I liked the idea of framesets. A simple enough websites could have an IRC-like chat frame to the left and the main navigable area to the right.

And the unholy amount of specific tags is the other side of the coin for not yet using JS and CSS for everything.

I think an "RHTML" standard as a continuation and maybe simplification of HTML 4.01 (no JS, no CSS, do dynamic things in applets, without Netscape plugins do applets with some new kind of plugins running in a specialized sandboxed VM with JIT) could be useful. Other than this there's no need in any change at all. It's perfect. It has all the necessary things for hypertext.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Might as well do no digital club and we exchange information through mail and pigeons.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Too much information.
Back to smoke signals.

Wait. You know what? Back to monke!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

It was a mistake to leave the oceans in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

in my next life, i'm gonna be an insect critter hopping in the grassy meadows i guess

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I recently made www.timedial.org, using mainly HTML 3.2. I tried HTML 2.0, but the lack of tables, fonts and even text alignment was a bit too much.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 days ago (4 children)

I can get behind no JS club, I can’t get behind no CSS club.

CSS is 🆒

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

This fucken rules

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Someone ask them how they make their ascii art without those technologies. (I'm interested)

[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Character, space, space, space, space, space, space, space, character, space, space, space, space, space, space, space, space, space, character, ENTER.

Just like your grandpappy used to do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Gotta use   if you dont want the browser to collapse all those spaces for you.

Edit: lol. The damn thing just rendered my whitespace code.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

Like the GameFAQ maps and art of the good 'ol days.

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[–] [email protected] -5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This post was a bit long. Is there a YouTube video that explains this?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Unfortunately it's hard for the rest of us to tell if you actually think you want a video to save you from having to read 18 sentences or if you're just taking the piss lol

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