this post was submitted on 20 May 2025

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470

Avoiding AI is hard – but our freedom to opt out must be protected (theconversation.com)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

48 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Everyday AI become more and more common, but can we say no?

top 48 comments

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

I understand all the concerns about losing jobs and being left behind, but that's also what happened when the loom was invented. An entire profession gone. Looms were destroyed in protests, people died over embracing the new machine and the inventors of every new version had their lifes threatened. But imagine if we we're still hand weaving all our clothes today? Yeah maybe they would be more durable than what we have today, but you wouldn't have many clothes, and there would be a large portion of the population just weaving fabrics.

Same thing happened when threshing machines were invented, steam pumps, cranes, the printing press. History repeats itself where jobs will be lost to new innovation but look at what new jobs and careers these inventions sparked.

Its hard to see it now, but automation is a good thing. It will drive new technology where we will once again find new jobs and careers.

Believe me, as someone still getting into my career which is being threatened by AI, I'm certain there will still be work that isn't just manual labor.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Why can't the rule be opt in instead? If I want it, I'll find it. If I don't I sure as hell don't want some company telling me I must.

Gtfo with that shite.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

“No” - tech bros and republicans

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 days ago

We can control AI just fine. We cannot control corporations, who use sloppy AI for important decisions. A few court cases for unfair hiring practices will solve the problem rather quickly, it won't be AI who will get fined, it will be CEO.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 2 days ago (5 children)

these negative comments are missing the point. Soon we may not be able to buy a phone that doesnt have an integrated intrusive ai that scans all you files. Android has one, ios has one. Whats the alternative? using lineage os or some other android rom? having to give up using banks apps and stuff that doesnt work in those roms? most people cant say no to having a phone, so lets ensure these phones arent so intrusive. lets legislate something about this...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Using a cheap android phone just for bank seems the solution.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Also an email for only your bank and finances, to prevent being phished.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

What you really need is freedom. Not from AI but from corporations.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

having to give up using banks apps and stuff that doesnt work in those roms?

btw, my bank recently announced that they'll not let anyone login to the web bank from mobile phones. their justification is to "protect against hackers", which is an obvious lie. this is the most popular bank in my country

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Use desktop mode and spoof the user agent with an extension. I'm assuming you're of average intelligence and already use Firefox.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

My bank ban 24h if you try that. They are blocking the connection arguing that you are using a new browser.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Fwiw I can use my banking apps and anything else on GrapheneOS. It's been smooth sailing all the way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Yep I just have to disable a few default sandboxing flags on my specific banking apps and they work.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

im glad that it works for you, but my point is that we should have the right to have a non-intrusive phone just as easily as we have intrusive ones. People shouldnt be expected to learn how to unlock a bootloader, or import one of the few phone models that support these alternative roms with all security features in place. In the process of installing these roms, some people might fall into the trap of installing them from a suspicious source.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Fair point. Technology is increasingly hostile.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

The technology isn't doing this, incompetent bank risk managers are.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Same here. I've been using Lineage since it was Cyanogenmod and I've never encountered banking or payment apps not working.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Oh shit lineage was cyanogen? I used that back in the day and loved it!

I’ll keep that in mind, thanks for the tidbit!

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I live in Denmark, their state identification app does not work if it detects that the Android ROM is not straight from Google. So when I switched to /e/OS I couldn't access anything any more. So yeah, in my case the solution was ta give up on one pretty critical app.

Thankfully the solution was as easy as getting one of those old fashioned code chips, and everything else seems to be working fine (including banking apps from other countries). So now I'm rocking /e/OS and I'm pretty sure there is no way I'm ever going back to Google Android.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Do Magisk and the universal fix no longer help with masking your OS?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

I think maybe it does, but I'm a pretty normal user who just used the Murena quick installer to get /e/OS. Reading up on Magisk after some web searches I quickly realized it was more than I could bite over without spending too much time trying to figure it all out. If people insist on making apps I can't use I'll just accept that I won't be using them at this point. Their loss.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

To be clear, the article is about people who don't wanna use AI and hes chois or not to do it in a personal level. No an impose to those who embrace AI. Is more like if a person can chose to say not to AI, or in words from the article "those who are left behind is widening and becoming a social barrier".

[+] [email protected] -18 points 2 days ago (3 children)

this is all pretty comical to me because I remember the same articles being written about the internet in the 80s and '90s and here we are

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yeah, here we are. The majority of humanity addicted to social media, being brainwashed by far-right assholes into voting for Nazis. That worked out really well, didn't it?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

This is not very similar. As the other poster said, unregulated AI is a corpos dream, and it will destroy us even worse than billionaires already have. Give it 10 years, if you don't work manual labor you'll be jobless

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Let me know how you feel when you are starving to death from not having any money from AI taking away every possible way to earn a living that isn't manual labor or shitty service jobs.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

well we aren't there now and while I do understand it's going to change things, that's what new technology does whether it's power tools or automated robots building cars or now ai doing things in software that's how things evolve with technology and we just figure out ways to continue to exist

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

If capitalism makes technology too dangerous, then we shouldn't have technology until we get rid of capitalism

[+] [email protected] -31 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Oh no, people are assaulting me with their different opinions!

No - you can't say no. People have a right to use AI in their productions, and your opinion cannot force them to do otherwise.

As with anything - the moment your opinion starts to dictate other people's lives, it becomes invalid.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago

Libertarians can fuck right off.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

What we need is the possibility to protect the content we did created.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Oh no, people are assaulting me with their different opinions!

No - you can't say no. People have a right to use AI in their productions, and your opinion cannot force them to do otherwise.

They have no right to force me to endure said "~~productions~~" garbage.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Nobody is forcing you to do anything by their use of AI. You don't have a right to TikTok not having things made with AI because you have the freedom to simply not use TikTok. Just as an example.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They are, tho.

My insurance companies push me to speak to Ai before real people. Ai is used to sort and database medical records, in use in many careers to spy on employees, and lie to and manipulate younger generations into militant dumbasses. I didn't opt-in, and I can't opt-out unless I use a bullet or this cancer is abolished from the earth.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

You have the ability to choose an insurance company that doesn't use those things. Hell, you even have the ability to self-insure in most states with enough collateral. Nothing is being forced on you. Hell - you EVEN have the ability to hire an in-person insurance agent -- did you know that?

Sure, it's not as cheap - but you've always been able to do this. You are not being forced like you claim, your own ignorance is what betrays you to the options you have available.

And what other people do with their ingestion of AI is their business, not yours.

Without AI, all of the things you say they are doing WITH AI were already possible. They could ALREADY spy on employees. They could ALREADY lie and manipulate people. All AI does is make it happen on a wider scale.

So instead of attacking "AI" "AI" "AI"...why not attack the things that are being done wrong, rather than the fact that it's AI?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If money is to be exchanged to excuse Ai from my annoyance , I'd expect it to me rather than from.

I have laid no welcome mat down for Ai yet it intrudes, and your suggestion is to make way and go elsewhere? Excuse me? Excuse Ai while it makes jobs disappear while trickling down zero net benefit to the working man while pushing profits up for shareholders, making the world worse for everyone involved.

Your argument is like telling someone they can just ignore an all you can eat buffet full of feces with one tray full of edible food. "Just ignore the shit and be happy, no one is forcing it on you! You're free to do as you please!"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If you continue going to the buffet with shit, that's on you. There are plenty of them without shit. You're just a vegan luddite at this point. You don't wanna eat animals, so you expect everyone around you to also not eat animals because it's against your beliefs.

Sorry. Not how the world works. AI is here to stay because it's useful to people. Whine and bitch and moan all you want, it's not going away.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

So what counts as dictating my life?

The government prohibiting me from firing my gun in the air, or my neighbor’s falling bullets prohibiting me from leaving my porch?

I’m always suspect of those who assume there is only “freedom to do” and not also “freedom from being done-to”.

They tend to think they will never be on the receiving end of someone else’s “freedom”.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Re-read your post and try to pinpoint where you contradict yourself. If you are unable to do so, you could ask chat gpt for help.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What if their use of AI affects me? Is my opinion invalid when my opinion is that you shouldnt be allowed to pollute a river that I depend on for accessing water? Have you thought about this for more than 2 seconds?

[+] [email protected] -13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Have you thought about this for more than 2 seconds?

Have YOU? - Your example is clearly them violating the rights of others. This isn't some paradox point of view or the "got ya!" moment that you think it is.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Your example is clearly them violating the rights of others.

Yes, and its my opinon that they shouldnt be allowed to do so. Not allowing people to do something does in fact dictate their lives, so my opinion should be invalid, no?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

No, because you use the uppermost-bound of the statement. Your opinion doesn't take precident as the opinion above it (polluting the river) already violates the rights of others. Your opinion literally is the same as mine. That the person polluting the river (their opinion being they can) - shouldn't be able to use that opinion to affect others. You're saying the same as I am, but focused on the wrong part.

Like with religion -- You're free to believe whatever you want to believe. That you're not allowed to have abortions, etc.

But the moment YOUR belief, says that I can't have an abortion, is when it becomes invalid, because it's not MY belief. I don't have to abide by YOUR belief/opinion on the matter. Your opinions don't dictate my actions.

Now, you can control your actions - by, say - not buying from me. You control your actions, so while you can't force companies not to AI, there's nothing forcing you to buy from them when you are aware of its use. You can't stop them from using it because you don't like it though. Your opinion of it being good/bad, or if they can/should/shouldn't use it matters absolutely none.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Lets clarify this.

Your principle is "The moment your opinion starts to dictate other people’s lives, it becomes invalid."

My opinion is "People should be prevented from polluting the rivers."

You say the opinion isnt dictating anything, that its our right to have clean rivers that dictates the prohibition to polluting rivers. Ok, fair, as far as the legislation isnt based on the opinions of the legislators about what should be allowed and what shouldnt. If the opinions that "using AI to judge if a suspected murderer is guilty is not good" or "people should be able to disable all 'AI assistant' features on their smartphones and not have their data constantly scanned" become popular opinions, legislature may be passed and the consequence will dictate other people's lives.

I see what you mean though that using AI or not only concerns/affects the user. But thats not as true as it may seem.