Rules for Movies & TV Discussion
Any discussion of Disney properties should contain a (cw: imperialism) tag. If your post isn't tagged appropriately it will be removed.
Anti-Bong Joon-ho trolling will result in an immediate ban from c/movies and submitted to the site administrators for review.
On Star Trek Sunday only posts discussing how we might achieve space communism are permitted. Non-Star Trek related content will be removed and you will be temporarily banned until the following Sunday.
Here's a list of tons of leftist movies.
Some things just cross the line.
What is this movie?
It's Andor, the Star Wars series that's a prequel to Rogue One.
It's about the origin of the rebel alliance, and it's not just the best Star Wars media of all time, it's one of the best shows of all time period.
Nah man I don’t think I can agree. My enemies are ontologically evil and I’m not gonna say there are no actions against them that are wrong, but moderate assault on the person who is having hundreds killed right outside the building at that very moment is not over the line for me.
All I was thinking during that scene was “I hope he has a blaster with him”
my enemies are not ontologically evil and there are acts against them which are wrong??
Watching some of the behind the scenes interviews with the actor who plays Dedra and I was disappointed that the way that Gough characterized Dedra's mindset was, “I did a lot of research on female psychopathy,"
It just feels like too much of a pass to give to even Dedra Meero to go "Oh well, she's a psychopath. Women do be crazy after all." instead of exploring, maybe, the motivations for why a human woman in a human-supremacist Empire would be attracted and motivated to perpetuating that order without some simmering psychiatric condition influencing her decisions.
Andor doesnt do the whole "imperial core"/"white woman tears", its not really a story about intersectional fight against imperialism, more like anti-fash. Thats why most characters that die arent white. Andor in general has not great writing for its female characters. Dedra was raised by the empire and there is nothing else to her.
I feel like when your job is working at the massacre factory either you're some degree of sociopathic going in or it's something you develop as a consequence of attempting to compartmentalize what you do at the massacre factory
the motivations for why a human woman in a human-supremacist Empire would be attracted and motivated to perpetuating that order without some simmering psychiatric condition influencing her decisions.
Why isn't "she's a psychopath" a good answer here tho? I doubt that the nazi party for example didn't have a very increased rate of psychopaths in their ranks.
It could be a good answer if the series actually showed her going out of her way to be a psychopath. Otherwise, my read is that she comes off as a "i'm just following orders" sociopath. Dedra might actually be getting off on being a mass abuser behind the scenes but the show hasn't communicated that well enough.
She definitely enjoyed torturing Bix in season 1
I might have to try to rewatch those scenes, the pacing of the show at times is slow enough that seem to completely forget things.
As its only shown that one time, a part of me wonders if she's just doing a act to try to intimidate Bix.
Yes that was intentional. Not only to showcase that the toxic fash ideology that colors the air within the empire causes to syril to assault his gf, once his whole world shatters, but also as a cruel irony to dedra who was always in control, saw fascism as her comfort and family and now her first human connection causes her to be not in control, to be not safe.
"I never thought that my pet dog would bite me!"
She didnt expect that Syril would have any other reaction to the ghorman genocide than submission.
I find myself thinking that this situation is the first time she actually "lost".
I mean she actually lost at Ferrix and with not finding Axis. But yeah Syril was like the first non-fascism/work related relationship she had. Her apartment is sterile, empty and just exist too keep her alive until she can go to work again. She is completely devoid of personhood.
The dinner scene also shows, that she integrated syril neatly into her world (they both wear black & white), while syril’s mom is a disruptive force in her world, symbolized by her garish hérmes-bag inspired orange clothes.
I mean she actually lost at Ferrix and with not finding Axis.
Hmmm... I guess so, but the "loss" of Axis didn't hurt her in any way. I think, technically, it was enough for the empire big wigs that she figured out there was an Axis and the theft of imperial hardware. She got a promotion, made everybody else look silly for trying to maintain their little silo'd intergalactic feifdoms, got taken on to a super top secret special project, and even got herself boy-toy.
My read is that she's been the "smartest bad guy in the room" for most of the series up to this point.
he dinner scene also shows, that she integrated syril neatly into her world
OOhhhhhh... Didn't clock the color themes. I got focused on Syril just changing hands between two domineering women. Syril's mom, whose vision was small (treating Syril like a punching bag) and Dedra whose vision was much grander (using Syril as an intelligence asset).
Hmmm... I guess so, but the "loss" of Axis didn't hurt her in any way. I think, technically, it was enough for the empire big wigs that she figured out there was an Axis and the theft of imperial hardware. She got a promotion, made everybody else look silly for trying to maintain their little silo'd intergalactic feifdoms, got taken on to a super top secret special project, and even got herself boy-toy.
Tbh I suspect it was mostly skipped over due to season 2 being the last season. Blevin took her fall somehow and thats why he vanishes despite him being set up as a future confrontation in the future. And I think it was more of Partagaz taking a mentor role to her (In Rise and Fall of the empire, there is a passage about Partagaz warning female imperials that they have to work twice as hard).
My read is that she's been the "smartest bad guy in the room" for most of the series up to this point.
Is she the smartest? Or is she the only one who doesn't extend outside her job? We see all other ISB members having something else, values, a social life, a family, etc... Only Dedra is never seen outside her work, even syril's relationship is another extension of it. This can be seen once again at the dinner scene. She uses imperial integrations tactics to deal with syril's mom. Fascism even inside her "home". There is a reason why the writers included the fact that she was raised in an "imperial kinderblock", the word kinderblock originates with the holocaust. The Kinderblock was a section of the Buchenwald concentration camp, established on the pleading of communist prisoners to give children a better chance for survival, it was a place of socialist humanity and hope (huh seems like A THEME) in face of nazi oppression and genocide. Of course I doubt that is the imagery what that word wanted to evoke, its more likely that its to symbolize that she was raised "in a prison" so to speak, unaware of anything else but fascism. I once again repeat, The tragedy Dedra's character and the "evil" done to her, is that she is denied a personhood and basic humanity by the empire. She can not fathom that she doesn't "need" to be that way. Syril was the first disruption of that worldview and when he dies, she takes comfort again in fascism -> her straightening her uniform.
In general we focus on Syril & Dedra because they are NOT the standard imperials, like Partagaz, Lagret, Heert, Bloy or Kaido. Andor is still a story in the end. One of the laziest and uncreative methods for story crafting is just simply ripping off the real world, thats why I am so annoyed with the billions of recent iterations "get it, its just like the goddamn cheeto man!!!" -like what daredevil born again did to fisk, for example.
Is she the smartest?
Didn't have a better way to describe it so I used quotation marks around "smartest bad guy in the room" for a reason. Wasn't trying to say that she's the actual smartest person but she might look like a genius when pointing out the information sharing that was hindered by the other bad guys not wanting to look bad at the table. It would make sense that Partagaz and higher ups would be able to see their immediate underlings locking down there territories more from each other than from rebels but also refusing to crack down on it because, up to that point, the situation was stable and yielded acceptible results. Once the situation progressed to the point that things were becoming unstable, somebody like Syril and Dedre, would be allowed to shake things up a bit.
For some reason I have it in my head that Dedre is a younger officer than her peers so I didn't make anything of her not yet having a life outside of work. She hadn't build up her fiefdom like the other officers had.
..."imperial kinderblock"...
Damn... didn't think about that way. I didn't think Dedre and Syril's mothers dinner scenes was any deeper than, "I'm an orphan, I was raised by the state/system, I've become quite self sufficient on my own, I'm not looking for a parent, I see what you're doing to Syril and I'm not going to allow it anymore."
Oh I wasnt really coming for you for that smartest in the room thing. It was more pointing out that she like almost a nerd when it comes to her obsession with her work -
spoiler
and thats the root of her downfall
Dedra is still younger but she isn’t really older than Lonni Jung, her foil in a way. Lonni has a life outside of work, in comparison to her lack of. Its deliberate.
That reading of the dinner is a valid one. Just there are multiple layers and meta-themes present. When Dedra says “We didnt know what we were missing”, thats not just a cheeky insult at syril’s narc mom, but its also an admission. The empire took her chance of having personal connections and a life beyond fascism.
spoiler
Luthen tells her exactly that she is disgusted by “freedom”, because she never had it and doesnt know what its like, she never had and cant understand. Her life starts in a prison and it ends in a prison.
Oh I wasnt really coming for you
Didn't take counter point personally. I really dig talking through things in this way. I find it very satisfying to have somebody point out something that I missed that can completely reframe a scene, a character, or a show's theme.
When Dedra says “We didnt know what we were missing”...
Woof, shit's bleaker than I picked up on.
Thats good to hear! I was just making sure, since some people take it as a personal attack. I agree with your sentiment.
Yeah dedra is very tragic in her own way.
spoiler
Even worse for her she is criminal - like her parents, and imprisoned as a rebel spy (as stated by Krennic), and Cassian tells the alliance council that Luthen had an ISB inside source. Ironically its very likely that she is assumed to be the one. Likely released post-empire and remembered as a hero who brought down the empire and leaked death star plans (while lonni jung is forgotten) - which she unconsciously brought about, by gathering all the information through "illegal" channels, she gave lonni the information the rebels needed.
spoiler
I wonder if she'd actually take credit for it to save her skin though? By this point on the series, she's followed the exact same path as Syril. "Axis" was her white whale just like Cassian was to Syril. Even realizing/knowing just how bad of the "bad guys" they are, their personal grudges against Luthen/Cassian for embarrassing them was stronger than their ability to follow the rules.
spoiler
Personally now, nah she wouldnt. In a few years however, she will be a very different person in after a few years. Its the first time her comfort is taken from her. Just like syril her entire world is now destroyed. I doubt that most writers would just bring her back to be the same character but now she serves the new order or gideon or something.