You're right but a bunch of people just don't care anymore and I can't totally blame them. I'll be voting biden because I always vote, but this is on democrats 100% if they can't motivate their base.
this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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I think the issue is more rooted in people like you. Spewing voter suppression rhetoric from somewhere but it's rooted in propaganda. Rather than rallying people to help and pointing out the good, which is what gets people motivated, you instead choose to blame the people trying not to turn America into a neo-nazi fascist theocracy. Which is the root at which the meme is getting at lol.
Unless it's simple cat and dog pics (even then sometimes) people on the internet just love to pretend they're above the people who watch reality TV, when it's just a different flavor of the same thing.
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There are legitimate criticisms to be had of Biden, but in every case, Trump is unambiguously worse. If Trump were pro-Palestine, I could maybe understand single-issue voters preferring him to Biden...but he's not.
To be honest, I have little hope for 2024. Genuine fake news is rampant, and in pretty much every case it hurts Biden (misinformation about the economy, etc.). I'll be voting a straight Dem ticket in my very red state, and hoping against all hope that uninformed voters somehow do the right thing.
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A critical refinement of this point: By all means, please do vote for whichever actual progressive candidate you favor in your state's Democratic primary. This is not sarcasm; do it. But when the general election comes around Biden is inevitably the candidate anyway, do whatever it takes to keep Trump out of office.
And why shouldn't Biden do whatever it takes to stop Trump? If supporting a genocide loses votes, there's an easy way to win those votes back.
How do we know supporting Israel isn’t getting him more votes then not supporting Israel?
Woah woah woah, you mean actually try to win votes through rational and humane policy and not merely the fact that he's running against a human piece of shit and is technically better? You mean that we should have someone with actual principles on the democratic ticket instead of someone nodding along and sending weapons to a genocidal government? Outrageous wow why do you love Trump so much
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Is this anyone's position? Calling him Genocide Joe, protesting at his campaign events, is about holding his feet to the fire. I don't think I've ever heard anyone saying they won't vote for Joe Biden because of it. Cause a vote for Joe isn't a vote for Joe, it's a vote against fascism.
Just because there's opposition, doesn't mean that not supporting someone means supporting the opposition.
There've literally been articles posted to the fediverse about people saying they'd rather not vote than vote for Biden because of his support for Netenyahu and the IDF.
Then give me one. I haven't seen these posts and you say they're here, show me please.
Here's one. It took me longer to type the search query than to find a relevant article from the search results.
Muslim Americans said they did not expect former President Donald Trump to treat their community any better if re-elected, but saw denying Biden votes as their only means to shape US policy.
“We’re not supporting Trump,” he said, adding the Muslim community would decide how to interview other candidates.
For the primary, sure that makes sense to try and enact change, but in the general election a vote for anyone other than Biden is the same as a vote for Trump.
I wanted to remain neutral when linking the article, but that's my take as well.
While I hate that people weaponize the saying "voting for an independent party is throwing away your vote" as a way to pressure others into voting for their preferred party, the logic behind it is not wrong. It would take a substantial amount of organization and commitment to make a third party viable. Considering that, any vote that isn't for Biden is effectively a vote for Trump.
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Lol right? You can have severe problems with what's happening and take opportunities where he is more accessible to feedback to voice concerns WHILE STILL doing your part to avoid the complete fuckery that is the alternative
Edit: Jesus Lemmy, let's appreciate nuance here.
I'm convinced if it wasn't the conflict in Palestine it would be some other issue that would prevent them from being able to "morally" support Biden.
Yes the conflict in Palestine is terrible, yes there are atrocities occuring, no I don't have any of the solutions.
There seem to be a subset of people that only want to see the negative in every aspect of life and this carries over to politicians/politics in general. The grass is forever more green elsewhere.
I recently asked a friend trapped in this bubble if they had seen the new Mario movie, as I attempt to avoid politics with them at this point in time, and I received the answer, "No, fuck Chris Pratt." I didn't bother asking why, but it seems that nearly ever aspect of life, except the ones they choose to conveniently ignore is reason for social outrage and some how it is "Biden's Fault," with complete disregard to what the alternative looks like.
But 3rd parties!!! Oh yes, because statistically splitting your vote between the only two groups with a chance of being elected to office is the "moral solution."
I don't ever want to hear about "harm reduction" from them again, when their "moral" decision results in women's healthcare being a literal afterthought and rights for a variety of marginalized communities being stripped away. 1,500 people a week are still dying from COVID in the U.S., but hey, let's help elect the party that wants to continue erroding any remaining social safety nets, because you know, people who get sick don't matter as much as this months zeitgeist of social outrage.
That was such a a wandering comment that idk how to respond, aside from: there are plenty of reasons why Biden is not as progressive as the world is moving. The way he handled Ukraine and Russia was amazing. He just backed the "Russia" in the Israeli/Palestine version. And I personally don't like that. And if I can't voice my displeasure with an elected official, then what are we doing here?
You can voice your displeasure while also making sure the world slides a little more slowly down the shithole (and potentionally has a chance to crawl back out). Voting for the president is important, but it's far from the only thing that is. Hedging everything you believe in on a single office is far more damaging than a single vote for Biden could ever be.
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No one says you can't vote, or think how you want to think, by all means this is a free country.
The issue I run into is that everyone is being purity tested to an extent that no individual who is at least somewhat tolerable to much of the political middle in the U.S., is acceptable to a specific subset of people who are constantly outraged by something.
Many of these same people complain endlessly about many of the issues a Trump presidency is going to greatly exacerbate, and don't seem to understand, none of us get what we want, but helping to elect him by not voting for the only real alternative seems insanely illogical in my mind. Much like the post states.
It makes no sense to me, "this person is going to burn everything down, but I'm not going to support the only alternative who does things that aren't nearly as bad..."
I feel like these "people" in your examples are simply scarecrows in your head.
You're running full on through a straw man argument, dude.
I don't have to scarecrow people I know, who are examples of this exact behavior. If I didn't know people like this why would I bring it up?
Because you are taking these ideas and applying them to a large swath of people, and then fighting that idea. "Everybody" isn't doing what you are saying. A few people you know MIGHT be somewhat doing something that you are saying.
You are fighting a straw man
Edit for clarity:
The issue I run into is that everyone is being purity tested to an extent that no individual who is at least somewhat....
They aren't. You're ignoring what we are talking about to throw gas on the fire, which hurts us all.
You don't agree that, speaking in generalities, people with more progressive values (obviously everything is a spectrum), are more likely to purity test their candidate than people with more conservative ideologies?
Speaking, again in generalities, the people I know that vote for conservative candidates do not seem to care what candidates do, no matter how much it runs counter to their core beliefs systems. Look how many, what I would consider abhorrent individuals are elected simply because they are a means to whatever end they are looking for.
Look around on political comments, especially on Lemmy, I see the exact behavior/thought process I'm speaking of on a very regular basis, and I truthfully only check in on this app when I have a client out or maybe before bed.
I'm not ignoring anything, I understand there are a variety of significant concerns about many candidates and processes within the Democratic party, especially when it comes to addressing the concerns of the more progressive issues. However; I think that many on the outer edges of the progressive spectrum over estimate how progressive the average American is, and often fail to consider just how disastrous a second Trump presidency would be for many many people.
So I'm a bit drunk right now and I will happily respond tomorrow. My rough read through here makes me think we are close to being on the same page though. People live and die in the details
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These people sound like exact copies of the people saying voting in 2000 didn't matter, and that turned out to be the most politically consequential of my lifetime. Gore was imperfect as they all are, but holy fuck did Dubya fuck up literally everything he touched.
Among many, many, many things, Dubya started forever wars killing untold hundreds of thousands of people. He accelerated oil and gas production, absolutely setting the Climate Change world on a pace for disaster. He seated Alito, unquestionably the biggest monster currently on the Supreme Court. And he passed a monster tax cut for the rich that set us on this path of unrestrained deficit spending.
And that's just the headlines. Remember when he tried to put his personal lawyer on the Supreme Court? lol
Gen X already tried this 25 years ago and it fucked the world up so badly that we need to be saved by the future generations. Imagine not learning that lesson and doing it again.
Don't forget in his first week or so he passed No Child Left Behind, which has irreparably damaged the education of children in this country.
https://www.epi.org/publication/what_went_wrong_with_no_child_left_behind/
Man, what I would do to have an unabashed giant nerd for president. I forget what people's issue with Gore even was.
Al Gore won the popular vote, but there was some sketchiness down in Florida. During a recount, Roger Stone rallied the troops (Brooks Brothers riot) which caused the counting to be stopped, due to threats of violence. Setting up the supreme Court to decide Bush won Florida.
During a recount, Roger Stone rallied the troops (Brooks Brothers riot) which caused the counting to be stopped, due to threats of violence.
In other words, the 2000 coup succeeded.
It's why they project so hard about Democrats cheating elections.
The Republicans have been for decades. And can't stand sometimes enough people show up that they still lose.
Damn that sounds really really familiar. Almost like it happened just a couple years ago.
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W was catastrophic. Honestly him and Reagan are the cause of most of our issues.
Nixon deserves a mention there too.
Nixon is inadvertently responsible for the creation of the right wing media circus which I would argue is fully responsible for W and trump.
If you're going to mention Nixon, then you have to include Andrew Johnson.
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I always wonder how Gore might have acted in response to 9/11.
Based on after-the-fact reports, it may never have happened.
Maybe that's just exposure to all the conspiracy theories, though, I dunno if he would have acted any differently than Bush did to the intelligence reports.
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Probably a similar initial response, but no Iraq War two years later. Which would make a... massive (and positive, in case that wasn't clear) change in the direction and concerns of American foreign policy.
He wouldn't have suspended civil rights, permitted torture and made a mockery of the rule of law.
We think that yes. I'm a gore fan.
But remember there were 100s of people driving towards those topics. Career defense and security types making their damnedest case that they needed those tools to avoid 9/11 2.0.
I hope gore, and the staff he surrounded himself with would have had the vision to avoid all that, despite the pressure.
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"Sure, I made the ongoing genocide worse, but at least I didn't vote for GENOCIDE JOE" - Useful idiots for the Israeli far-right
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