Thanks Palantir! Great job!....
this post was submitted on 18 Apr 2025
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“The Israeli army said it bombed the house because there was a Hamas officer in there, which is totally false. I know the whole family. It’s nonsense. It’s just so devastating.”
So, this wasn't even a random bombing. It was 100^100% deliberate precise targeting.
It's not even shocking anymore.
I'm trying my best not to hate, but people gotta take notice. Straight up genocide and apartheid plus American money is paying for it. I understand some isrealies don't agree with the genocide and Hamas is kinda holding the Palestinians hostage, but dam it's a slaughter. It's easter passover and rammadan, so everyone will pray to justify going back to killing. Gotta love religion as politics to gain profit for those in control.
Israel locks 2.2 million Palestinians in a concentration camp
"Hamas is kind of holding Palestinians hostage"
Hamas is the official representative of Gaza. They were elected. They are a government under war of annihilation and occupation.
Hamas is the official representative of Gaza. They were elected.
What makes you say this? Do you not realize this "election" happened all the way back in 2006?
Do you know how long ago that was? 19 years.
Do you know what the median age in Gaza was in 2020 (before this recent escalation in genocide)? 18 years old.
In my opinion 20 years per election might not be an ideal timescale for a democracy.
I'm trying to assume good faith so I'm confused why you'd argue that's adequate representation?
Israel and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank have blocked elections since then. But you are right that half of Gazans weren’t even born when Hamas won the last elections.
Israel and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank have blocked elections since then.
Right, this is the primary reason I would argue that there's no official representative.
But it sounds as though you're presenting it to counter the point I was making. Can you elaborate on how this fact legimizes Hamas as an official representative?
But you are right that half of Gazans weren’t even born when Hamas won the last elections.
While that's correct its even worse, once you factor in the minimum voting age of 18 years old, over 75% of Gazans were unable to participate in the last election.
Hamas aren't the ones preventing elections. They don't lose legitimacy just because other parties have illegally halted the electoral process. They're not the obstacle.
Hamas aren't the ones preventing elections.
No, we've already gone over that it's their occupiers fault for that
They don't lose legitimacy just because other parties have illegally halted the electoral process. They're not the obstacle.
No they do not.
They lose legitimacy over time as it becomes longer and longer since the last election.
75% of the population has never had an opportunity to vote for anyone at all and 50% is too young to have even been born at the last election. I don't see how we can say these people have legitimate representation despite that.
Okay, so by this logic Israel can revoke the legitimacy of other governments simply by preventing elections.
Yes, countries can invade and occupy other countries, suspend their governments, block future elections and violate their civil rights.
That's what's so bad about it.
But this shouldn't be a surprise, Israel is doing much worse human rights abuses to the Palestinians than simply revoking the legitimacy of their government. They're massacring them, they're starving them and blowing up aid workers trying to bring in food, not even to mention the sexual violence I can't even stomach thinking about.
It's important to understand the severity of what a genocide implies. These are a people without a voice. If someone doesn't stop the occupation and reallow legitimate elections, the very idea of a Palestinian people might be eradicated.
Would you say Ukraine's government is also illegitimate because they aren't having elections?
That's a great example to bring up.
Ukraine has declared martial law and with that suspended elections that should have in peacetime occurred last year. Martial law continues to get extended 90 days at a time by parliament and this has happened 14 times now.
As I mentioned earlier, the longer time goes on without an election the less legitimate a government becomes. 4 year terms, 5 year terms, 6 years, I don't think the micro details of it really matter but as a rule of thumb there should be elections at least twice a generation.
If we say a generation is 25-30 years that means every 12-15 years at a minimum.
Ukraine elected Zelensky in 2019, so it's been 6 years since the last election.
All of this seems reasonable at this stage for me to say Ukraine's government is 100% legitimate.
If 4 more years pass and it's been a decade, I'm starting to think it's time to give the next generation a shot at defending their land.
At 15 years i think its lost its legitimacy. Though I will likely still support it's right to defend itself against occupation, I think a legitimate government would allow the new generation of Ukrainians to have a say on that and elections are necessary.
What are your thoughts? In 20 years do you think it's okay if Ukraine still hasn't held elections?
I think this is a very strict small-r republican moral framework for understanding government legitimacy, but I don't think the consent of the governed has to strictly come from casting ballots in an election.
When a government loses their legitimacy they have to rely on violence against their own people to remain in power, and this is true whether there are elections or not. Zelensky would lose power if he was not kidnapping Ukrainians off the street to fight Russia, therefore, he needs to employ violence to retain power.
Compare that with Hamas, who never lack fighters and don't bother with conscripts because the masses are willing to fight and die for them.
Hamas is able to operate because of the many people willing to volunteer their help as smugglers/informants or hide them from Israel intelligence or join them directly as fighters. Guerillas live and die by their support from the people, a guerilla movement like Hamas would not be able to exist without the masses. Their continued existence, itself, proves legitimacy imo
Not to say that Zelensky has lost legitimacy, per se, just to say that I don't think using a moral framework based on elections will tell the whole story. I do question his legitimacy, though, which is why I don't think he'll be in power next year. Hamas, on the other hand, isn't going anywhere.
What's a good faith argument for a ghetto/prison?
What? There aren't any?
If I explained to you ghettos are horrific and violate human rights, because as one example among so many other issues we would likely agree on, they strip a people of their right to fair elections and representation in the determination of their future.
And that the fact that Palestinians have not been free to organize, form new political parties and campaign in safe and uncoerced elections is a direct violation of their rights and the party to answer and blame for this is the one occupying them and preventing this from happening...
What are we disagreeing about?
What I disagree with is that an election an entire generation before the present that people alive never voted in should not be held up to represent their current politics and beliefs as a nation.
Website name is uncanny
Read this article if you want to feel horrible and powerless
Yep. Fuck you Isreal.