this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2025
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...there are two different ways to measure this cosmic expansion rate, and they don’t agree. One method looks deep into the past by analyzing cosmic microwave background radiation, the faint afterglow of the Big Bang. The other studies Cepheid variable stars in nearby galaxies, whose brightness allows astronomers to map more recent expansion.

You’d expect both methods to give the same answer. Instead, they disagree—by a lot. And this mismatch is what scientists call the Hubble tension...Webb’s data agrees with Hubble’s and completely rules out measurement error as the cause of the discrepancy. It’s now harder than ever to explain away the tension as a statistical fluke. This inconsistency suggests something big might be missing from our understanding of the universe - something beyond current theories involving dark matter, dark energy, or even gravity itself. When the same universe appears to expand at different rates depending on how and where you look, it raises the possibility that our entire cosmological model may need rethinking.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 weeks ago

This website is slop even if it overlaps with reality at times.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

To be fair, there's always been something deeply wrong with how most people understand the universe.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

To be fair, there’s always been something deeply wrong with how most people understand ~~the universe~~.

FTFY

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

To be fair, there’s always been something deeply wrong with ~~how~~ most people ~~understand the universe~~.

FTFTFY :P

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The heart of the matter, laid bare. May I call you master?

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (9 children)

The article over-dramatizes the story. This "deeply wrong" discrepancy is less than 10%. CMB measurements predict a Hubble constant of around 68km/s/Mpc. Distance ladder measurements get around 73km/s/Mpc.

Our current understanding of the universe the Lambda-CDM model is still wildly successful and it's more likely that the true correct model of the universe will be a correction/extension to Lambda-CDM rather than a completely new theory (although if it is a completely new theory that would be pretty cool).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

i agree with you that here, the difference between 68 and 73 seems very small.

For me, it's even amazing that they get, for the CBM, any number even close to the same order of magnitude, given that it seems like a linear division of speed of light divided by light travel distance at the age of the universe, is the value for Hubble parameter (H)*_ at CBM.

That seems in contradiction to the fact that, when adding relativistic velocities (and incrementally up to the speed of light !), linear addition is out of question and general relativity has to be used.

This is just one of the apparent difficulties and obviously there are much more and harder challenges than this one.

_*(... and is the age of the universe defined or measured by other means than simply :
Δt = 1/H ... ? That can't be : since we have 2 parameters to evaluate, so, we need 2 independent experimental measurement variables. )

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think you're understating things. The measurements don't have to be 100 km/s/Mpc apart to cause problems for our understanding of the universe. Ruling out measurement error means we have to go back to the drawing board on cosmology. The problem isn't sloppy telescopes or anything -- it's definitely a hole in our current model.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago

Yes it's a problem with the model. But it a problem that can very likely be fixed. We don't have to throw out the entire model and start from scratch.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

Ick! What is this glass almanac thing? Try phys.org

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Am I missing something or is there just no source given in this article? I would really like to be able to read more but I can’t find anything in the recent press releases from the JWST team or through a quick search. It doesn’t even say who the “researchers” are.

Also why is every other sentence bolded? It made it really hard to read.

Edit: It seems that the article is mostly taken from this 2023 NASA blog post. The raisin bread analogy is on Wikipedia.

Even if this isn’t AI slop this is a lazy article.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I was a bit confused too as I was pretty sure this was old news. Here's a NASA article from 2023 with more information.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, fair, the NASA article is better. I'm not mad about it, though; I'd rather talk about the JWST, cosmology, and the Hubble tension than more political shit.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

James Webb confirmation confirms something is deeply wrong with how we write headlines.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This is really exciting stuff, tbh. It's kinda amazing that in a world where the frontiers have been settled, most fields have had a century to a thousand years of refinement, there are still areas of science where we have giant gaps in our knowledge, like scientists first discovering gravity, or the circumference of Earth.

Someone, perhaps someone who is already alive, is going to discover new math or observations that fundamentally change how we see the universe, with far reaching implications on cosmic exploration, travel the birth and death of our universe, and (I'm sure) many commercial applications.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

I fully expect scientists of the 25th century to roll our current level of knowledge of the universe in one with flat earth and geocentrism.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

I mean, the recent discoveries actually do not dispute most of the previous theories. Most of the time the old theories are fringe cases where some parameters are simplified so you get the new theory that is actually a general case of the classical one. It's not like our old formulas stop working when we discover new cases...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

But how could light pass through nothing? Surely there must exist a lumeniferous aether!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly. People have been convinced of numerous "scientific" ideas over the centuries that later turned out to be totally bogus. "Dirt creates vermin".

And maybe, in a few decades or centuries, they laugh at the notion of Dark Matter. Or what the stupid cavepeople of the 21st century still believed was gravity or speed of light.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Every time they call the telescope just "James Webb" I wonder why they care what a comedy special (of comedians nobody knows about) director thinks.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 weeks ago

The telescope or the dead homophobe?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

We don't even understand what caused the incomprehensibly fast rate of expansion after the Big Bang known as "cosmic inflation", but basically JWST has confirmed that the rate of acceleration of the universe is, itself, accelerating beyond our models. Everything, everywhere since 0.01 quectoseconds^1^ after the Big Bang has always moved faster than we could predict, and we don't why!

“What the results still do not explain is why the universe appears to be expanding so fast! We can predict the expansion rate of the universe by observing its baby picture, the cosmic microwave background, and then employing our best model of how it grows up over time to tell us how fast the universe should be expanding today. The fact that the present measure of the expansion rate significantly exceeds the prediction is a now decade-long problem called “The Hubble Tension.”

  1. Quecto, the smallest metric SI prefix, 1*10^-30^, is still 100x too large to measure the time between the Big Bang and Cosmic Inflation.
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The hologram explanation is looking more attractive.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This sounds interesting? Where did you read this?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

For more info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

But this is a part of String Theory and that has quite a few issues. Still very interesting!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

It's one of the theories of the existence of the universe. At first, it was dismissed as science fantasy, but some have begun to take it seriously as it explains a lot of the unexplained. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-our-universe-a-hologram-physicists-debate-famous-idea-on-its-25th-anniversary1/

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Isn’t this what has been attributed as evidence supporting the timescape model? It’s an alternative explanation for dark energy, in which it argues time is not the same in all places of universe.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

I don't think this is considered evidence supporting Timescape yet, but it could be and it is being investigated.

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