this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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    The indoctrination of windows is extreme. Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

    And yet... linux is hard, and users decry RTFM as "not growing the userbase"

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    [–] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 42 points 1 month ago (21 children)

    I'm probably gonna get hated on for this but here's my story:

    About 3 weeks ago I bought a new gaming laptop with no OS with the intention of installing Linux myself and ditching Windows.

    I'd read a lot online about how Linux was now competitive with Windows as Linux emulators could run Windows games with a 10-15% boost in performance. I read that it was all a case of finding the right distro and that Linux is much more user friendly and compatible now. So I did a little research, made myself a ventoy boot USB with Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Pop, Garuda and Fedora to see which one I liked best.

    None of them worked properly. All of them had weird little quirks. Some I could live with, some were completely infuriating. So l did a little tinkering as I was determined not to give in. None of the distros detected my hardware properly, and so I went away found forums with similar issues and I fixed most of them. However, no matter what I tried I could not get the laptop speakers to work. No problem, I thought, I'll be either using headphones or BT to my soundbar (as that worked fine). So having given up on the speaker issue, I downloaded some games. In all of the distros they ran like shit. Sound bugs, laggy game play, some wouldn't play at all. Again, I tried tinkering with the settings, using a different version of proton, different sound drivers, different graphics settings, different commands and programs which might solve the issues. No. Each different distro threw up different issues which I spent hours and researching and experimenting. I tried a few more distros and found new issues which needed more research and more experimenting.

    Over the three weeks or so I was trying I became irritable and depressed. I'd spent a lot of money on the laptop and I was unable to use it because no matter what I tried, even with relatively low resource hungry games, they did not run well at all, and even linux itself seemed slow and unresponsive in comparison to what I was used to.

    So after hours and hours of climbing the walls and snapping at my wife and neglecting my kid, I downloaded Windows. And everything just works. There are bespoke programs for my graphics card and everything in my steam library runs beautifully with very minimal tinkering. So now I have a dual boot system, windows for games only and Linux for everything else.

    I hate that I'm still enthralled to Windows, but seriously, Linux is just not ready for mass adoption. If something doesn't work on Windows , it's usually a case of just downloading the correct driver and Windows normally knows which one you need. If something doesn't work on Linux it's a slog through paragraphs of text which all assume some basic knowledge of coding or Linux's file system or some other jargon, or watching endless YouTube videos and then still getting nowhere. As a working husband and father I just do not have the time to put into it.

    Tl;Dr - Windows is much easier than Linux. That's why everyone uses Windows.

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    [–] LeninsOvaries@lemmy.cafe -5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Linux is nice, but I wish there weren't so many distros. The entire project should be managed by a central authority that uses violence to punish deviance, like Lenin said.

    [–] asudox@lemmy.asudox.dev 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)
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    [–] heavyboots@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

    I mean, this is why I have been using Mac since 1984. It's not hard and it pretty much just gets out of the way and lets you do stuff. (Caveat: Gaming. It really doesn't let you do gaming without jumping through a number of hoops.)

    The fact Time Machine immediately hassles you to set up a drive and back up your stuff is so great for the average user. I'm sure both Linux and (I know) Windows have something similar, but it's not immediately active and trying to get you to save your stuff. TM has saved my bacon numerous times and I love that it's one click and a fresh HD for users to get it set up.

    [–] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    I will always remember my first experience using MacOS: I am comfortable with computers and a relative needed help with their recently purchased macbook. I had plugged in a USB stick to transfer some files and was done and wanted to eject it. I spent way too much time than I care to admit, trying all possible options, right-clicks, settings, everything imaginable, to eject the damn thing.

    It was impossible to me to find the simplest operation with a USB stick, something required to operate it. I capitulated and looked online. The solution? I had to drag and drop the USB stick icon into the trashcan!?!?!?

    To this day, I will never understand the absolute ridicule of this and I will never comprehend how anyone is expected to figure it out on their own. And this is from the OS touted as the most user friendly and intuitive. Go figure.

    Edit: this was a long while back, no idea how it is nowadays.

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    [–] cronenthal@discuss.tchncs.de 43 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Windows is to Linux what McDonald's is to cooking your own food.

    [–] Shareni@programming.dev 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    More like a restaurant that has Korean BBQ / hot pot on the menu. Most meals are completely prepared, but for some you need to do a small part yourself.

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    [–] Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 month ago

    10/10 analogy

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    [–] twinnie@feddit.uk 20 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Sorry, I love Linux and wish everybody was on it but no way is Windows β€œjust as hard”. Maybe if you want to look behind the curtain and start tinkering Linux is easier but on the face of it I’d say Linux is somewhere around early Windows XP when it comes to usability for a normal person.

    i picked up linux mint in a weekend; it was incredibly easy to come over from windows.

    [–] peterg75@discuss.online 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    If you had to install Windows every time you bought a PC you'd think that Linux and Windows are comparable. That is the issue, tbh. It's not the RTFM; its because the average PC user had NEVER NEEDED to install an OS. Windows just comes preinstalled on 99% of consumer PCs! For the "year of Linux" to be a reality, there needs to be an easy way to get a retail PC with Linux preinstalled. When I show my Windows-only users my Linux laptop, how quickly it boots up, how many apps I have installed, how easy it is to install and update apps, etc., most say: "Oh wow! I can use this". But when I demonstrate having to choose the boot loader, partition setup, etc., they say, "Nah! I'll just go buy a laptop with Windows!"

    [–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

    Tech nerds have a really hard time understanding technophobia.

    Yes everyone can use Linux if they just jump through the right hoops.

    The average person does not ever want to jump through a single hoop EVER when it comes to learning a new tech.

    Either it works or it isn't worth the time/hassle to learn an entire world of information that is required to use different computers to the extent that linux nerds do.

    [–] peterg75@discuss.online 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Exactly!

    Unfortunately, there needs to be a commercial/financial effort behind the mass adoption of Linux. The average person has no idea that an alternative to Windows or MacOS even exists because they have not seen it advertised on TV or mainstream social media.

    These conversations on Linux communities on Lemmy and Mastodon are just us nerds yelling into our own echo chamber. The average person needs something that "just works" without having to read a book about how to set it up.

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    [–] Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 month ago

    No, tbh it is.

    The thing is that windows has "become the standard"

    Where options are, how to fix any problems? You learn windows like you learn a language. German and danish isn't too different, but if you grew up with danish it's going to be harder to learn german.

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    [–] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    I know some of the issue is the manuals themselves are out of date. Ive literally had to have something explained to me via the developers Discord. I hate going to a projects Discord in order to find out crucial info.

    Sometimes manuals are in 5 different places so you don't know what applies to your specific system.

    I usually try and improve the manuals when I do come across this with a quick PR, when I have time.

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    [–] KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    Feels like this implies that software is broadly maintained by its general user base when that's simply not how it is outside of really niche projects. Most FOSS software is maintained by a dedicated few who are but a tiny fraction of the user base and are far from being your "average user".

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    One of my main problems with Linux is the obsessive amount of text things have to learn or understand it, I have to sig around online for someone who doesn't say rtfm because the manual is extremely long and it's usually a pretty small easy problem. Or I find someone who has the problem and no response or a response that doesn't work in the current version. It took me a couple of days to setup my home Linux entertainment system because of these reasons.

    Accessibility matters,it's good to have proper documentation and it also good to make it accessible to everyone and not just the hardcore Linux people.

    One of the things I had problems with is with my laptop turning off my external display with the lid was closed, took me a couple of days to find it was in some text file in systemd instead of idk in the power settings?

    Linux is hard and it's not user friendly. But better then Windows for me at least, mainly because Linux has more accessibility options now then windows.

    [–] Limonene@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

    Windows used to be easy. Now, it's so obscure and locked down that only Microsoft can maintain your computer. And they maintain it for their own benefit, at your expense, with mandatory ads and lockouts.

    [–] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

    I disagree about how it used to be easy. And agree with everything else.

    Ive used Windows since the 3.1 days (MSDOS as well?). Its never been "easy". You just learn the magic spells on how to fix a printer, get the right drivers installed in JUST the right way, or which hardware magically doesn't work for some reason and avoid it.

    With Linux, at least we get good logs most of the time.

    i remember my first family pc was a tandy sensation which had it's own built in ui - winmate - because windows 3.1 program manager was so frustrating.

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