Maybe we go back to p2p, public key encryption and desktop apps. ipfs can store all the data in the distributed manner and gov can pay citizens for keeping data as a tax exception. But who I am to question building big corporations over and over again.
this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2025
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P2P has insane latency and is not applicable to most industries. It's a decent idea for back ups though. P2P also has insane energy costs. It's not as bad as BitCoins, but it will destroy our planet for sure.
I think that cloud costs are pretty much hidden under the corporate curtain. Things like water usage, energy usage for those 24/7 running servers, amount of servers that are running and not doing anything, finally the environmental impact around those big blocks of servers are pretty much not existent in the media.
Torrent sharing is doing fine.
Also doing same things over and over again because USA have it so Europe must have it to is not the way to go for me. I think Europe need it's own way for technology and have all the bits to do it. I'm not saying that Europe should do the youtube in p2p manner because that's insane but gov administration and countries beurocracy can go p2p.
P2P energy cost will be way less in my opinion. The servers don't need to be online 24/7 if you think about it, for office workers they just need them when they are working. For people you can just request old data on demand and spin up server once per week to send bunch of encrypted emails. We're used to that internet is instant but gov shouldn't be instant it should be slow and stable so you don't get punished, that's completly oposite from what mainstream media internet is.
Cloud costs are super low. That's why clouds are so cheap - every penny is optimised, because it eats into profits. P2P is extremely expensive and resource intensive.
Torrents are not doing fine, torrents are a really good example of huge resource waste, latency and stability issues. And, contrary to your opinion, it's better to make YouTube P2P than gov services. Because YouTube is not sensitive to latency and doesn't require stability or security.
Your idea that gov services should not be instant is just bonkers.
In any case, P2P is useless, insecure, slow and power hungry. And, once again, it shouldn't be used for anything but back ups.
I think we can end discussion here because what you wrote is completly not true.
Do you even know what P2P stands for ? Do you know that you use P2P every day and all the time, for example by using HTTP2/QUIC.
You need 0 resources to run P2P network.
Cloud computing costs are way higher than colocating server anywhere. Many companies are moving out from cloud after facing high costs. The only place cloud is shining is when you want to spin up many resources for a short period of time. And that is because we don't have kind of computing power provider on the market where you could spin up many resources from many local computers.
Do you even know why cloud took of 20 years ago ? Have you been using internet 20 years ago ? Compare connection speed of local houshold from 20 years ago with speed right now. Compare mobile internet plan and think how it changed.
You have no idea what you are writing about.
Lol so are we in the USA
Its good to see that Americans are just following Dear Leader into the abyss.
? The point of searching for alternatives to USA Big Tech is to not follow some old man who doesn't even understand it all. I don't see how your comment follows.
Well, maybe you don't understand the context of the OP, but we Europeans are leaving US tech behind due to your current president starting an unwarranted trade war with all of the US's (former) allies.
I was praising you, or any american really, who's sabotaging the current administration instead of just living life as usual. That's how my comment follows.
The appeal of someone else's cloud for companies was that it was cheaper because of professionalization. But then enshitification hit and they got more expensive too. And the most sovereign cloud is your own.
Wasn't there some big EU cloud project (aside from IPCEI, EUCLIDIA and the dotzen others), that was in the end used mostly by big US corp? Was it HORIZON cloud?
Nextcloud
Not really the same thing, LoadBalancer, VM, Managed service such as database, secret manager and far more are provided by the likes of Aws and GCP. Sadly the alternatives in Europe such as OVH Cloud are not really on the same level...
A bunch of smaller EU firms should merge and get half as tall as one of the trifecta. EU companies should get them the rest of the way up to their same size.
It will be hard to do if AWS is 1/3 to 1/2 of the cloud space, originally people wanted to move on from AWS to Ms or even Google. They will have to develop something equivalent or equal
As should have been done already 10 years ago. When it became clear American authorities can seize any information even when stored on servers outside USA, by any American service provider.
And Obama claimed it was a "fair balance".
USA has in many ways acted almost like a totalitarian regime for decades, disregarding their own laws, international laws, and especially the laws of other countries, even allies.
This became very clear when Obama stressed that illegal surveillance/monitoring wasn't used against American citizens.
Obviously meaning that citizens of other countries have no rights, and there are no laws preventing American intelligence in any way.
As it turned out, what Obama promised wasn't even true, and Americans stationed in for instance Iraq, were very much monitored.
With regard to information of other countries, USA has CLEARLY demonstrated, that they have no regard for decency or even laws.
This was revealed when Obama was president, and the Republicans are even worse!!
USA and EU has made an agreement on this, claimed to make it legal in EU to use American cloud services.
But as we have seen, no American administration gives a fuck about such agreements or even laws, so that agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on.
and Americans stationed in for instance Iraq, were very much monitored.
Um... This was never a secret. Like, at all. All the phones in the phone bank I hit up in the desert there were clearly labeled "Communications on this line can and will be monitored for operational security reasons"
Was it written on the phone of the people they called?
The claim was that with calls from foreign countries, if it was an American they spoke to, it would not be monitored.
Only foreigners were.
Was it written on the phone of the people they called?
No, but if they weren't informed, frankly, that's on the SM for not doing so. And honestly, anyone taking a call from a deployed soldier should just understand that reality.
The claim was that with calls from foreign countries, if it was an American they spoke to, it would not be monitored. Only foreigners were.
I'm not going to speak to generalities of whose calls were monitored and shouldn't have been. Solely the item of "Americans stationed in Iraq were monitored", which is, frankly, obviously happening. And every SM was informed as such. And they were instructed to inform their families of that fact.
Every military spouse knew that, if they went to the pre-deployment briefings they were invited to. Every SM knew it. Every contractor knew it, and their families should have also been informed by the contractor.
Hell, even in my state, only one party legally has to know it's being monitored and/or recorded to be legal.
Obama taking no action to dismantle the surveillance state was my biggest problem with his administration. It was so obvious how that surveillance would be abused were it ever to get in the hands of a President with authoritarian tendencies.
And here we are.
Now they've fully eroded the 4th amendment and will use that knowledge to eradicate the 1st.
Yes IMO that part was very disappointing. As I used to say, Obama is an excellent president for USA, but he is still American.
Meaning there are things that we simply don't see the same way.
But as a Dane I can't really complain much about it. Because we were complicit, and helped USA spy against other European countries, for which I am much ashamed.
Wow. This guy hates Obama lol.
No I don't, Obama was a good president and USA was a strong ally under him.
I hate Trump.
But it's alarming IMO that a president that we consider moderate and a friend, still think these things are OK.
And Obama was just unfortunate that it was under him that these things were revealed.
You make fair points. I shouldn’t jest so carelessly. I don’t think it’s just Obama either though. Past administrations have all had hands toward what we have today.
That said; I do think you’re right really. Which also kinda makes me sad. I wish we had some real leadership, and actually hope 😅
We end up with a remixed reality of ‘King Ralph’ instead. Every day with Trump is eating away at whatever hope for some kind of check and balance to occur. It’s disheartening to feel so powerless in the face of such a FUBAR-POTUS clown show in the chainsaw wielding circus.
Anyway! Back to masking it 🎭
Past administrations have all had hands toward what we have today.
Absolutely, as I wrote Obama was just unlucky that it was under him that these things were revealed.
It’s disheartening to feel so powerless in the face of such a FUBAR-POTUS clown show in the chainsaw wielding circus.
I am really sorry for all the good Americans that have to suffer the consequences of this administration.
It will probably get worse before it gets better.
Anyone who opposes mass surveillance should.
What facts did they get wrong?
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