What's going on Canada?
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We should throw some cash at Saab and see if they can come up with a stealth gripen or something.
As should europe. Clearly you can't trust the USA anymore. What is the long-term prospect for spare parts?
Letβs do it and replace them with MiGs π€¨
The aircraft has significant security risks for sure and makes sense to cancel. But canceling the order won't be on Trump's radar unless it affects his inner circle of evil billionaires who have funneled dark money to him.
Canada should cancel the F-35 contract and their are better fighter jets from reliable NATO allies. The F-35 is a $2 trillion USD turd that is still not 100%. If Canada continues to purchase US weapons, this would be like Poland buying weapons from Nazi Germany. I am hoping the US MIC becomes pissed off.
2 trillion is a fuckload of drones!
The PM agrees with The Globe and Mail once and now they think they'll get two in a row?
Goddamn right we should. Take the French up on the offer to build the Rafale here. Or the Swedes. And get a few demo units for short term.
Fuck 'em on any cancellation fees too. Consider it partial compensation for the ridiculous trade war.
None of those airplanes even have similar capabilities. Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The only alternative is to wait 15+(realistically 20+) years for a 6gen plane from Europe. And with the alliance dying, who knows how much longer it will take now
Rafale and Gripen are more expensive and in many ways, less good. There is a reason why noone is buying them, or even if they did, they still want to buy more F-35.
Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The reason for Germany is that other aircraft, by choice, have not been certified for use with US nuclear weapons.
Nuke capability is irrelevant for most countries(rafale has a nuke capable variant, though only for French nukes). Take a look at its operators
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_operators
Everyone who can get it(allied to the US), has already ordered it or will soon. The only exceptions are Sweden and France, who wanted to maintain some degree of strategic independence and not lose their jet fighter building capability. And Spain, though Spain was also kinda thinking of getting F-35 too(before Trump).
Canada was like Sweden and France, they could manufacture capable planes. But this is immensely expensive. Thats why Canada(and most countries) stopped doing it. This is why the F-35 is cheap, economies of scale, and why countries are willing to wait 5+ years to get it(while rafale and Gripen are basically readily available).
Europe wanted to coast through 5gen planes by using the F-35 while skipping ahead and developing, 2 completely different apparently, 6gen planes by 2040ish.
Every country knows the US changes faces faster than my ex girlfriend.
At this point other countries just need to deal with 4 years of this bullshit.
If Trump were to take over the government like Hitler did, which looks to be the case, only then would countries start looking at dropping the USA.
No. There's no telling what comes after these 4 years. The US has proven that they aren't an ally worth relying on, we should look to more reliable partners and building them up and vice versa. Any concession or help offered by the next administration isn't worth the paper it's written on (just look at trump ripping up his own trade agreement for this nonsense.)
We need allies not a neighbour that on a whim might try to throw us into a recession.
Exactly. With a Presidential Monarchy, no deal or treaty can be trusted past the next election (assuming they'll still have those).
More than more Trump, we are also seeing a complete abandonment of the US much vaunted system of checks and balances. You simply can't deal with them except in 4 year periods.
If you look back at the history of the US, it's been fairly reliable in it's first world alliances.
Yeah, they've pretty strongly turned from recent history though. No one in NATO believes the US could be trusted to uphold article 5 anymore. That's the whole issue.
Hell, why doesn't Ukraine have the nuclear deterrnet that it had after the collapse of the Soviet Union? Because they foolishly believed American security promises, which were given in exchange for them releasing their nukes.
Exactly. But it also shows it's more about Trump than America.
Plus we got other stuff to worry about, and playing nice with America is probably better in the long run.
When the us comes crawling back we should make them pay reparations for any economic or other damages before they're welcomed back.
What would they do instead? Get a bunch of J-35s, like Egypt?
Dassault makes jets...
I'm confused.
That's not a poem.
I was assured that Sprog bestows awesome poems upon the masses.
I don't think I can anymore.
I don't blame you, man. We live in unhappy times, it's no place for happy rhymes.
That's sad but I understand.
You brought joy to a lot of people but it must have been a ton of work.
J35 or the new Turkish planes. Or develop their own plane.
Fighter planes are very expensive to develop.
The F-35 program cost something around $1.7 trillion. ~~That's several times the annual GDP of Canada.~~ That's more than half of Canada's annual GDP.
A better bet would be to enter some joint development program with partners in the EU.
That is not several times Canada's GDP. Maybe you meant many many times Canada's annual military expenditure.
Regardless 1.7 trillion Is a lot of money
Sorry. That was an error on my part. I'll correct it.
Join GCAP (Global Combat Air Program) or FCAS (Future Coma=bat Air System). They are both multi-country projects to develop next gen fighter jets. Off the top of my head, GCAP is UK, Japan and Italy where FCAS is Germany, France, and... I'd have to look it up, and I'm feeling a bit lazy.
Assuming there is no schedule slippage, they won't deliver aircraft until 2035 and 2040 respectively though, so we would still need a stop gap. I'm partial to Gripen, and Sweden has flirted with joing GCAP as well, so that might be a good way to reivigorate Canadian aerospace, in cooperation with the other GCAP countries and Sweden.
Typhoon/EF2000/Rafale. Not stealthy, but still a superb multi role aircraft.
(Yes, I know Rafale is technically not the same aircraft, but it sprang from the same initial plans, so it's pretty close)
#buyeuropean, I guess
From what I understand, those are fine if you're going up against enemies that don't have stealth (and all the ancillary technologies that go with it).
The general military analysis is that the F-35 and J-35 are superior to anything else in the air and are similar in capabilities to each other. Conflicts between them will come down to who can make more of them faster. Conflicts between one of them and an older generation fighter seems to be, they'll blow you up before you can see them.
EU better get cracking and start making stealth planes.
That's assuming stealth stays effective much longer.
Stealth planes can already be detected, it's a matter of doing it fast enough and small enough to work in a missile.
Probably be some laid off government contractors soon with stealth expertise.
Already leaked the info to Russia.