this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2025
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SneerClub

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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

See our twin at Reddit

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The French urologist by day eugenicist transhumanist crank by night Laurent Alexandre had an interesting perspective on the subject fifteen years ago. We should do eugenics and edit our brains to be better so as to counter the emergence of Artificial Intelligence. The robots will replace us if we don't do rigorous embryo selection.

Incidentally he also warns that a modern day Stalin in possession of neuromachines and gene editing technologies would create what he terms "neuro-gulags".

I don't remember seeing Lesswrongers play with these sorts of ideas, which is a little surprising. But they're reluctant to diminish the AI's omnipotence I imagine.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

I don’t remember seeing Lesswrongers play with these sorts of ideas

the all-defector in rajaniemi's books probably sits pretty close?

(I still can't tell if rajaniemi's actually really into all this shit, or just found it all to be a highly convenient backstory for some detailed scifi)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I've played Geneforge. This is going to go badly for everyone involved.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The gratuitous hate for washing machines in this is so funny. Dudes rock.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I could trivially create an entire libguide dedicated to peer reviewed publications about how washing machines completely, fundamentally reshaped society. They (when combined with other electrified household labor saving devices) possibly caused more social change than computers. Non-automated laundry is so labor intensive that in pre-industrial societies, even the very poor often paid to send their laundry out, like baking bread only more so.

Like you said, dudes rock.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Help an unaligned cigar smoking super boss baby got out in Chicago and put that baby's spell on me to force me to work at a paperclip factory :(

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

We do not understand genetic code as code. We merely have developed some statistical relations between some part of the genetic code and some outcomes, but nobody understands the genetic code good enough to write even the equivalent of "Hello World!".

Gene modification consists of grabbing a slice of genetic code and splicing it into another. Impressive! Means we can edit the code. Doesn't mean we understand the code. If you grab the code for Donkey Kong and put it into the code of Microsoft Excel, does it mean you can throw barrels at your numbers? Or will you simply break the whole thing? Genetic code is very robust and has a lot of redundancies (that we don't understand) so it won't crash like Excel. Something will likely grow. But tumors are also growth.

Remember Thalidomide? They had at the time better reason to think it was safe then we today have thinking gene editing babies is safe.

The tech bros who are gene editing babies (assuming that they are, because they are stupid, egotistical and wealthy enough to bend most laws) are not creating super babies, they are creating new and exciting genetic disorders. Poor babies.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

My understanding is that it is possible to reliably (given the reliability required for lab animals) insert genes for individual proteins. I.e. if you want a transgenetic mouse line that has neurons that will fluoresce under laser light when they are firing, you can insert a gene sequence for GCaMP without too much hassle. You can even get the inserted gene to be under the control of certain promoters so that it will only activate in certain types of neurons and not others. Some really ambitious work has inserted multiple sequences for different colors of optogenetic indicators into a single mouse line.

If you want something more complicated that isn't just a sequence for a single protein or at most a few protein, never mind something nebulous on the conceptual level like "intelligence" then yeah, the technology or even basic scientific understanding is lacking.

Also, the gene insertion techniques that are reliable enough for experimenting on mice and rats aren't nearly reliable enough to use on humans (not that they even know what genes to insert in the first place for anything but the most straightforward of genetic disorders).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

there's been some (what appears to me to be) remarkable progress in the field, in that I know that it's possible to create intentional structures. it's very much not my field so I can't speak to it in detail, I think the best way I could describe where I understand it to be is that it's like people building with lego, if that makes sense?

but yeah it's still a damn far way off from what we'd call "gene programming" as we have "computer programming"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

That is cool.

I am not a geneticist, but I have had reasons to talk to geneticists. And they do a lot of cool stuff. For example, I talked with geneticists who researched the genom of a hard to treat patient group to find genetic clusters to yield clues of potential treatments.

You have patient group A that has a cluster of genes B which we know codes for function C which can go haywire in way D which already has a treatment E. Then E becomes a potential treatment for A. You still have to run trials to see if it actually has effect, but it opens up new venues with existing treatments. This in particular has potential for small patient groups that are unlikely to receive much funding and research on its own.

But this also highlights how very far we are from understanding the genetic code as code that can be reprogrammed for intelligence or longevity. And how much more likely experiments are to mess things up in ways we can not predict beforehand, and which doesn't have a treatment.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

I wouldn’t say that modern computer programming is that hot either. On the other hand, I can absolutely see “no guarantee of merchantability or fitness for any particular purpose” being enthusiastically applied to genetic engineering products. Silicon Valley brought us “move fast and break things”, and now you can apply it to your children, too!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

My favorite comment in the lesswrong discussion: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DfrSZaf3JC8vJdbZL/how-to-make-superbabies?commentId=oyDCbGtkvXtqMnNbK

It's not that eugenics is a magnet for white supremacists, or that rich people might give their children an even more artificially inflated sense of self-worth. No, the risk is that the superbabies might be Khan and kick start the eugenics wars. Of course, this isn't a reason not to make superbabies, it just means the idea needs some more workshopping via Red Teaming (hacker lingo is applicable to everything).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

One comment refuses to leave me: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DfrSZaf3JC8vJdbZL/how-to-make-superbabies?commentId=C7MvCZHbFmeLdxyAk

The commenter makes and extended tortured analogy to machine learning... in order to say that maybe genes with correlations to IQ won't add to IQ linearly. It's an encapsulation of many lesswrong issues: veneration of machine learning, overgeneralizing of comp sci into unrelated fields, a need to use paragraphs to say what a single sentence could, and a failure to actually state firm direct objections to blatantly stupid ideas.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

If we're casting eugenics warriors, at least Ricardo Montalban had some bodacious pecs

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I feel coding people like they're software might not be much better than coding software to pretend it's people

Don't get sucked into a eugenics cult

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

I feel coding people like they’re software

Jesus christ can you imagine segfaulting someone's kidney

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You are right, but the Wronger chuds are way too far up their own buttholes to figure this out

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

You don't understand, it is important to look at all diverse viewpoints (no not those), there might be some good ideas up there.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

"Fund my company and your child might live to adulthood and/or have sperm that glows green."

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