I judge you for all that and also for your choice of political party because they represent all those things.
this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2025
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Unpopular opinion: if you base your arguments in political debates around morals, you'll only be able to convince people who share your moral standpoint.
Famously didn’t work for republicans! Oh wait.
How are the republicans a counterexamplex o.O
By being elected into power. Clearly, it worked for them.
What do you mean by "it"?
Going all-in on appealing to those who are already aligned with them or unaligned, and ignoring or degrading the opposition instead of trying to sway them.
So... how is that strategy going to help progressive politics, exactly? O.o
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(15 replies)
If Trump voters could be convinced they wouldn't have voted trump, so this doesn't change my calculus.
If Trump voters could be convinced
Are you sure you're actually in favor of democracy, if you have such a misanthropic worldview?
I have so far seen zero evidence that anything Trump does will convince his voters that he's the evil shitstain he is, so what I'm not in favor of is the futility of trying to convince anyone, when 8 years of reality and headlines have failed to do the same. I have magas in my family and they will perform literally any gymnastics necessary to absolve Trump of guilt for anything he's done.
So yeah, if basing my opinions off of the evidence I'm surrounded by daily makes me misanthropic, then sure, you can call me that if it makes you feel happy.
Sorry, I don't think I'm interested in such moralistic political discussions where you constantly bring up how someone is "evil".
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(1 replies)
Are you sure you’re actually in favor of democracy, if you have such a misanthropic worldview?
Democracy, as the saying goes, is the worst system of government ever devised - except for all the others.
People are stupid, in every fucking system.
The difference is, in a democracy, you have to (theoretically, and depending on the health of the democratic system) get a massive percentage of very stupid or very malicious people to make stupid decisions on behalf of the polity, whereas in narrower forms of government, you only need a small percentage of very stupid or very malicious people who are well-placed.
Democracy is a safeguard, not an aegis, not a panacea. All systems of government are ultimately only as good as the people who comprise them; and while I'd sooner trust "The entire adult population" over "A self-selected cabal", that does not mean the former will always make good, moral, sensible, or even self-interested decisions.
I don't think the point here is "I should be able to convince you", it's "We're not friends anymore, because you're a genuine piece of shit from a moral standpoint".
Good luck with trying to improve the political landscape while not talking to a large part of the population, then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I agree with you but Im having difficulty figuring out how to convert people who voted to place people in camps.
Step one: don't try to "convert" anyone.
Rather, listen to their worries. You gan point out discrepancies with their world view and show your disapproval if they're really bringing out the racist shit, but don't try to sell them your ideology.
Also, remember that it takes time to change someone's viewpoint. You need to be patient.
Rather, listen to their worries. You gan point out discrepancies with their world view and show your disapproval if they’re really bringing out the racist shit, but don’t try to sell them your ideology.
So the civility politics route the Dems have been trying for the past 40 years.
How's that worked out?
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(5 replies)
Ah yes. Last conversation I had with one they insisted they saw a bus sized drone in the sky. If I’m rude or not improving the political landscape then lol oh well guess I’m not then.
Did it have FAA compliant lighting? It’s awful nice of the aliens to comply with our laws before arriving.
Have you talked to Trump voters, man?
Most of them are not salvageable.
It's the same essential mistake that the Harris campaign committed this past election which may have lost us our democracy permanently - a favorite mistake of the Democratic Party seeking to fend off its left-wing by showing (or, in this case, 'showing') that bipartisanship and reaching 'across the aisle' is a winning formula. Trying to reason with right-wing voters in this country is a lost fucking cause. Reasoning with those who've tuned out due to apathy or despair is the way forward - assuming, of course, that votes matter going forward, which is far from guaranteed.
You're confusino peer to peer communication with top-down propaganda. Not the same thing, homie.
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(8 replies)
If they were capable of feeling shame, this might hurt them.
They're capable of feeling shame, just not for what you or I feel shame for.
The trick is to find out what hurts them.
You’ve got to make them an outcast to their in group.
So stupid shit like pointing out their hands are nicely manicured (if they are a man) that’s why they wear lifts and shoes too large for their feet.
Or for women you call them a man. That’s why they do it to every woman they hate.
Just observe them. They lay their cards right on the table.
The problem, of course, lies in striking the balance between speaking to them in their own terms, and reinforcing the values that many of their terms reflect.
If you voted for either imperial candidate...
Go on bb. Say it with your whole chest. These ellipsis look bad on you. You believe it, say it. Tell us how fascists and liberals are the exact same thing. Go on. We are waiting.
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I'm not having that argument again. I understand the position that they were equally bad, and I support the rights of folks who couldn't vote for either of them because of that. But while I do acknowledge that US imperialism is not just a meme, I had to work with what I was given, and that was bad or less bad. I chose less bad.
I respect that others saw it differently and that's all I have to say on the matter.
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(3 replies)
"The oppressed should work towards their own murder, in solidarity with all the other oppressed folk being murdered!
It won't stop anyone from being murdered, but it'll make those of us not in any danger feel really pure 😊"