697
Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia
(www.independent.co.uk)
Yeah its bad, but jail time for it?
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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Yeah. How about from 1948?
Sending people to jail is a great way to make sure they don't spend time embroiled in Nazi ideology on every level. Probably the best way to make sure someone never comes in contact with a single particle of Nazism, is to send them to prison.
(Can you tell I'm american?)
I sat on a jury recently and a large part of the case had to do with prison culture. It's so incredibly sad how accurate this is.
My dad was a prison guard, I've thought about some of these dynamics a lot over the years.
Yeah, but most of the people I imagine pulling a Nazi salute "as a joke like Elon (were so hilarious haha look at those [insertracialslur])" might be deterred from pulling their shitty "joke" if it actually means prison time automatically. It doesn't matter if it's just like a week. Try explaining to an employer why you didn't attend the important meeting you had because you sat in jail for a week for a fascist "joke".
I mean free speech is a deeply contradictory concept, which i largely support, however, people having the "right" to harm others is not a human right but a right of domination, which I am actively and deeply set against. And prison justice is just a "right" to harm others, only one that we are conditioned to live with.
It does create an opportunity for a little irony, which I can't pass up.
But part of my criticism is not just "Nazis exist in prison" but "carcerial justice is just as fascistic as anything we associate with fascism" which never gets even thought about let alone discussed anywhere but the fringes of the prison abolition movement.
And things like prisons and police, the existence of many kinds of crime, particularly property crimes, need to be considered historically contingent, so that no matter how much we want to just delete all prisons they do serve as a solution to contradictions that arise within our society. So that the struggle to abolish carcerial punishment has to be simultaneously replaced with something better. Which is just and worth fighting for.
Getting rid of heil Hitler hand gestures in public might prevent the public proliferation of "signs" of fascism, the actual causes of it are institutional and function in cooperation with systems of institutional racism, Etc., and until those tendencies are abolished, and that is the worst expressions of class domination within capitalism, fascism will always be a problem to contend with.
In other words, we have fascism because we have prisons. Or rather, the underlying logic of fascism is just the underlying logic that justifies carcerial justice, taken to its natural conclusions.
So its not just irony, its like a double irony
“carcerial justice is just as fascistic as anything we associate with fascism” which never gets even thought about let alone discussed anywher
Yeah because it's childish strawman. Of course it's not the same to have to spend a day in a drunk tank because you lost control and were kicking off mirrors from cars as it is to be marched into a gaschamber.
That's false equivalency.
Also, if you had ever picked up a single philosophy book, you'd know how much positive and negative freedoms and the right of the government to impose those on others is actually discussed. It's like >95% of what philosophy has been going on about for the 1000 years.
Getting rid of heil Hitler hand gestures in public might prevent the public proliferation of “signs” of fascism, the actual causes of it are institutional and function in cooperation with systems of institutional racism,
Not really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
In other words, we have fascism because we have prisons.
Fucking roflmao, literally. Well I didn't drop to the floor but I did roll around giggling a bit on my chair. I would suggest reading "Leviathan" from Hobbes, but since I know you won't, here's a video sort of summarising Hobbes' thoughts, by a professional philosopher called Alain de Botton and his channel "School of Life" POLITICAL THEORY - Thomas Hobbes
Honestly what else is there to do? These people aren’t exactly going to change their minds, and letting them display hate in the name of free speech is only going to help them mobilize and elect more trumps in the world.
Well I say it elsewhere, but we need to really start to rethink carcerial justice as a solution to social problems. It doesn't help, it just compounds the contradictions that lead to problems like crime, fascism in the first place.
I understand we can't just snap our fingers to make it go away. But The first step is discussion.
One year's mandatory jail term for any "hate-related offenses" seems a bit far imo. Should be just a fine at least for first offense, unless it's some physical attack and stuff like that.
That's basically a tax on not being rich enough to be a nazi, which... well.
You’re playing into the paradox of tolerance. Don’t do that.
Why stop at jail time? Why not execute them?
a paywall for a moral breach sounds like a horrendous idea
If you consider a fine just a paywall then do you feel like there should be jail sentence for all traffic violations too, for example? A bit ridiculous, imo.
What a nicely timed distraction from issues like housing, cost of living and health.
Albo was definitely always going to pass these laws even if Zionist gangs hadn't staged the attacks across Australia to create the headlines that triggered these laws.
Definitely wouldn't happen here in Oz!
Trump puts tariffs on Australia....
And Musk to block Starlink from Australia.
gosh, how we let the weird kid gather so much power..
He’s gonna get starlink to burn insects like with a magnifying glass. Maybe the Jewish space lasers were Nazi space lasers all along.
They're projecting like always.
In their defense, that's the only thing lasers know how to do.
Good. I'm glad Australia drew a hard line.
A hard line angled up at about 45 degrees.
Now make it retroactive and with universal jurisdiction.
I know you're joking, but we do not want retroactive laws
Retroactive laws are a horrible idea
*Unless applied in benefit
That's true, then it can be good