this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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The sun dial worked during daylight, but how did people agree on what time it was at night before clocks were invented?

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[–] DJKayDawg@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

THE Big Dipper's angle can be used to tell time at northern latitudes. It stays in the sky all night. I was told by a Blackfoot elder that they used it as a clock on clear nights.

The position changes with both time of night and time of year. Regular observers can tell time by the angle the constellation sits at.

[–] cygon@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • An amusing way people used to wake up early was by drinking extra water before going to sleep. Their full bladder would wake them in the early morning hours (unless they overdid it, in which case they had to use the potty in the middle of the night and then overslept).

  • Animal noises. Most people had animals or lived near other people with animals, so the morning hours had a bunch of typical animal noises (animals, like humans, have an inner clock, and some animals are programmed to wake up before dawn).

  • Logs near the stove. A seasonal thing, but in winter, if you know you usually refill the stove 3 or 4 times during the night, you can tell how much of the night has passed through your wood stack.

The bi-phasic sleep thing also helped (take a good nap around noon, but also wake up at midnight and drink a beer with the neighbors). The point of midnight may have been rather arbitrary, though.

As far as I'm aware, candles were affordable, but the average person still couldn't afford to burn down a candle every day to work or measure time, so once it got dark, normal work ceased and, at best, a family would meet in front of the stove and tell stories, knit or carve for a while.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Star movements probably. They also knew how long certain things would burn for. There were even candles that would be marked specifically for hour counting.

[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Yup, the ancients loved stars. It was strangely common for multiple cultures to create these weird observatories that were mostly for observation of a single star associated with different seasons.

Mechanical options were usually used by people trying for some form of efficiency either social or to mark distance. Marking time on ships was very important for accurate mapping for instance.

As for most of society meeting up at a given time just took longer as everything was more of a rough estimate. Some of the accounts have been guessed at as people didn't write details about how they approached time down. It's been hazarded that the day marked your doing productive stuff period and you set out your routine for days in advance so people knew where to find you if not exactly when you'd be doing it. Evening was your social planning time where you'd meet up and share details of your to do list with the people who needed to know.

I once spent a week with a whole bunch of people camping on a big property for a Medieval recreation event where we had volunteer work to do on the property and agreed to attempt to explore time as our ancestors knew it. We all ditched our watches for two weeks. It was actually generally fairly relaxing? Everything moved a little slower but not by that much. There wasn't any way to have much anxiety about not being precise so you just got used to people showing up during a wider span. If there was somewhere people needed to be around a specific time the person hosting the event just dispatched some runners to the places you knew people were going to be and people became more conversational as they passed along info. Actually very basic conversation had a lot more interest because passing along knowledge of what you knew was happening elsewhere became an actual topic of combined mutual interest instead of very boring comparisons of time tables.

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[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not sure how accurate this is, but in The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco, some monks stay up all night chanting so that they can wake up the other monks for morning prayers. So, the night monks chant a Hail Mary X number of times, and that takes them Y amount of time.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 44 points 1 year ago

They actually didn't for the most part, hour level divisions were mostly for the sake of tracking time in the daytime, when having that level of precision could be important for things like jobs or time sensitive tasks, but at night all that really mattered was that you got to bed with enough time to get a full night's sleep.

[–] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 5 points 1 year ago

Moon, stars, depends how accurate they want to be.

eg: Go to bed at sunset; meet me at moonrise; festival starts when some constellation rises over the mountain.

[–] SpaceKase@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

Easy peasy, they didn't

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago

By looking at sun dial

[–] TruthAintEasy@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Sand, water, candles. Each one can be a clock

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

So I got scooped on the whole candle thing, which I really wanted to go with. Instead, I’m going to pivot and say that accurate timekeeping - day or night - was actually driven by the needs of navigation. 

You could get a pretty good idea of when it was based on the position of the sun and stars, as long as you knew where you were. The opposite is also true - you could figure out where you were, as long as you knew what time it was (and had the appropriate charts/data). The problem was that, while sailing around the world, ships often didn’t know either one.

For rough purposes, people used things like candles. In some cases, monks would recite specific prayers at a given cadence to keep track of time overnight and so know when to wake the others. These methods, as well as later inventions like the pendulum clock that used a known time component to drive watch mechanisms, were all but useless for navigation due to inaccuracies. They were good enough in the 1200s to let the monks know when to pray, though.

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The first pendulum clocks "broke" when shipped to other parts of the world. They didn't keep the same time as the place of manufacture because gravity was ever so slightly different (Earth being an oblate spheroid) approaching the equator slowed the clocks down enough to slowly lose time.

There were so many problems with monitoring time. Even today I always dread it a bit. While we’ve tried to at least move the issues from the mechanistic to the philosophical, we still run into things like the Y2K and the 2038 problems. Hell, I remember running into an issue with calculating leap years and such as an undergrad.

I like to think that, if nothing else, it gives me a greater appreciation for Discworld.

[–] TruthAintEasy@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To touch on the reciting of prayers, they would also use that to time mixing of substances and what little medical procedures they had. Neat!

[–] Tolstoshev@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Is that where the idea of witches reciting incantations while mixing potions comes from?

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[–] toxicbubble@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

some towns hired people to wake the town for work, and someone else would be hired to wake them up. some societies studied the stars and moon to tell the time at night. and like others stated, there were candles, lanterns, and furnaces to tell how much time has passed. people were more in tune with their environment

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

How did the wakeyuppymen know what time to start wakeyuppying, tho?

[–] z00s@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He gets woken up by the wakeyuppy-wakeyupperer, who in turn is woken up by the wakeyupper-wakeyupper-wakeyupperer.

Basically, at least one person had to be awake at any given moment or society would collapse. It happened once and they didn't recover for hundreds of years, that's why they called it "The Dark Ages".

[–] toxicbubble@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

sunrise probably

A wakeyuppyman is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

how did people agree on what time it was at night

They didn't. There was no need to and no way to do it anyway.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

What if I needed to coordinate a nocturnal scheme??!!

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Have a signal.

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