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Musk isn't someone who failed elementary school, he is the richest man on the world and the US secretary for government efficiency. He definitely knows what's a Nazi salute, and what isn't.
We're not in the context of a movie, a theatre play, a larp, or even a costume party where it would have been from OK to "stupid" but in the context of a political speech.
So it's definitely a nazi salute.
People win elections all the time. People celebrate elections all the time. The last time somebody taking power did a gesture that looked like this was probably in Germany, 1933. This is no coincidence.
If it was an accident, he'd probably have apologized by now. But it really doesn't matter either way. It's too late now, he's given license to the far right to see it as the endorsement they want.
Honestly, I'm not entirely convinced it was a Nazi salute. I think, given how stupid and akward he is, and the fact that the salute was so off-angle, it could have actually been an akward "my heart goes out to you" gesture.
That said, focusing on this possible red flag is stupid and honestly makes light of the situation, when looking at Elon Musk's history and past statements is like standing in the Red Square on parade day. The bigger and more undeniable red flags are all throughout his past, and continued after the salute, such as his refusal to apologize. I guess its good that people are finally putting their foot down, but the appropriate time was a decade ago at least.
It doesn't matter.
It REALLY doesn't matter.
If he was doing a Nazi salute, the consequences are obvious. If he was doing something "like" a Nazi salute but can plausibly deny it, the result is exactly the same; and that means that the intent is the same, even if it is proven (magically!) that it wasn't a Nazi salute.
This is the result:
The Nazis of the world all saw it, and took it as a sign of unity. Nothing else matters.
Now Musk may or not may be autistic, but I know several autistic people (plus one with Tourette Syndrome, long ago) and you know what? Not a single one of them has done anything like a Nazi salute.
"Heil Hitler" as a phrase and a salute is fairly unique: It is something that is absolutely burned into the memory of most of humanity, regardless of language, culture, or society. Nobody with Musk's worldly knowledge and experience would accidentally do something that close to a Nazi salute. Hell, an eight year old from Latvia wouldn't accidentally do something like that. The knowledge and the taboo are absolutely burned into our collective consciousness.
There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever that Musk didn't know what he was doing.
And even if that's true, it honestly doesn't matter.
It doesn’t matter.
It REALLY doesn’t matter.
Best way I saw it expressed: If you did something that was NOT a nazi salute, but other people perceived it as a nazi salute, you would IMMEDIATELY apologise and walk it back. Given that Muskolini has not done that, he did indeed do a nazi salute.
Watch it again. It seems there is a split second hesitation before the first salute. Followed by a "let's just get that done full force" move. Kinda like people that are about to do a stunt the first time. One last "are we really going to try that?". It kinda implies intent and also that there is some sanity left there to make these decisions. Which gives me hope it's just Putin having a video of him and he is acting under duress. So definitively an intentional Nazi salute. Should try that in Germany and see how fast he gets arrested for that shit.
There is always a possibility that he did not intend it to be a Hitler salute, but that possibility is not very plausible, because…he pretty much did a Hitler salute and the odds of him being ignorant of that fact are extremely low.
There was this period before WWII when stuff started happening to reduce the rights of minorities, but they weren’t being killed blatantly. Is this where we are?
None of that changes/happens with an exuberant salute. Embarassing for him, but you can ask him what were the good ideas Hitler had.
Americans and world will be genocided because oligarchy can see a path where slaves are a hindrance if they don't just die quietly instead of being genocided. Oligarchs could instead choose to be richer, which happens when there are more people to make stuff for them and buy their workers' stuff, but using wealth for power is a simpler thought.
The only viable politics is UBI, but we could only get warmongering neocons as "the opposition", and you will suck up to the same again.
No.
Nah, as an autistic person who works with many autistic people (I am a support worker), no. Autistic people are able to miss things, mistake social cues, and so on, but blaming autism for a Nazi salute is absolutely bullshit. Not to mention that he has done tonnes of other stuff which is in line with a Nazi salute and this is just the last in a long line of behaviours, and his family history etc, yeah, not autism, just Nazi shit.
I don't think they are nazis, I think they are fascists. And I don't think they even think of themselves as fascists, I think they just think power sets the rules and that a lot of people on the left's attempts at 'fairness' are dumb, and (they think) 'well if you want to call that 'fascism' then you're an overreacting bitter delusional leftie'
Or something like that
I suspect he did it to take the piss. And to signal to elements of the right / far right that they should breathe a little more freely
Same way his government department is "doge". Same way he named Tesla's products "S.E.X.Y". Many many things he does are bait.
But do I think musk stands for what the Nazis did? No. And I think he, and his type, enjoy thinking it's "ridiculous" that anyone thinks that. "Obviously" he doesn't want to gas the Jews. "Obviously" he doesn't think all black people should be lynched.
But I do think he thinks it's ok trans people are made to fear. That sub cultures are made to feel unwelcome. That non-'wasp' lives are ruined whenever convenient. That checks and balances in government are as changeable as the furniture.
I think he thinks industry should serve a grand national vision.
I don't think he gives a shit what that vision is as long as it involves him getting even more stupid wealthy
So this pretty much sums up fascism. He's a fascist not a nazi..
First, I hope you're right. Still a shitty world but less so than what I'm imagining. The whole "we understand power so we are smart and everyone else is not as smart" is spot on.
But, I think it starts with no intention of gassing the Jews. But after a few generals have been replaced with lackeys, and those "deportation camps" in Texas start to be more trouble than they're worth, and how convenient it was when that one bunch of them happened to die, a new final solution starts to look more probable. And of course the perpetrators of the new genocide are not the bad guys. They're making the hard choices. They're the smart ones and of course it made sense to do it since digging a mass grave was cheaper than feeding 10,000 recently ex-Americans in a camp far away. That's just good economics, people! You have to think like a billionaire!
That might have gotten away from me, but I do believe there's a slippery slope and our new President and his orange skinned bff are waxing up the toboggan.
anything is possible until the guy actually admits and quips 'deal with it'. imo, which he won't because suddenly he's relevant again with all these attention.
another opinion of mine is with enough mental gymnastics, there would exist a non-zero probability for it.
best is to settle for the simplest reason and just move on.
it has nothing to do with being autistic, however he was fucking zooted on ketamine during ceremony. I doubt that he's ever sober as of lately.
Drug usage can fuck up people good or bring out what's hiding real deep in them, see Kanye's story with nitrous. And that's precisely why he's dangerous, he is powerful and deranged at the same time.
He has been at the head of a company for years. He is now in a position of overseeing and altering whole government organizations.
He knows the stakes, he knows the responsibility, he's been in the public eye for a long time. The salute was legit that is out of the question, he could have made any number of different gestures but he did that particular one twice.
Now at BEST it was "just" a senseless and reckless lapse of judgement or some batshit level trolling. But even if I gave that benefit of the doubt why would I want someone with that little self control anywhere near the level of government that he is currently playing with?
If I was calling the shots I would show him the door and pull all US Govt support for anything he touches on principal alone. Not a fan of Trump but even he hasn't pulled shit like this.
35 yo autistic person here:
I tend to ramble on and on when I am somewhat nervous, or excited and genuinely interested in someone or something, i'll include too much detail that does eventually wrap around to connect to all the points I am trying to make, or story I'm trying to tell, but it can be laborious for a listener to make sense of.
I will often interperet things people say so literally that I miss or forget the context that the conversation is taking place in which gives a word or phrase a specific meaning, and have to ask for clarification.
Saying goodbye and ending a conversation is always either too long and drawn out, or abrupt and curt to the point of often being interpreted as rude, even though I don't mean to be rude.
...
I do not have a tendency to do a goddamned nazi salute unintentionally.
Thats uh, a pretty unambiguous, obvious social ettiquette rule, pretty binary, pretty cut and dry.
No. And here’s why:
The closest he has come to a denial, so far as I can find over 48 hours after he made the gesture, is a deflective tweet mocking the people who recognized the link to Nazis as being uncreative.
This means one of two things:
a. He doesn’t care that it is being construed as a Nazi salute.
OR
b. He wants it to be construed as a Nazi salute.
These two options very much amount to the same thing.
We will never know what exactly was going through his mind at the moment he made the motion. Regardless, even if Musk had somehow not initially intended the gesture to be a Nazi salute, he has transformed it into one by promoting that interpretation.
at first I thought it was supposed to be a normal hand over heart then doing a salute immediately after, but to do it TWICE then NOT apologize when people say it's a Nazi salute means it is 100% a Nazi salute.
The main issue is that his heil combined with his previously expressed opinions and actions removes all doubt
Honesty here. The autistic argument is really offensive to people with autism, I asked a friend with high functioning autism about his opinion. It mistreats the condition to transform it into a political scapegoat. It misrepresents what autism is. Elon is not autistic, he's is just a narcissist and always high on ketamine. I've met dozens of autistic persons, and not even once has anyone ever done the Nazi salute on accident, not even on highly euphoric social events. To suggest the autistic apology makes the person mentioning it sound awfully ableist and like an asshole. I suggest you don't ever mention it out loud to anyone ever again. It's insidious and dehumanizing against people with cognitive issues.
i wasn't trying tonbe offensive, sorry
when i viewed it, it looked like a nazi salute
but based on reactions and a lack of extreme across rhe board condemnation, I wondered if there was some strange explanation that wasn't apparent to me
Musk says he has Asperger's, a type of high funxtioning autism i thought (but may be mistaken about). I just thought this could be the only possible explanation for such unusual behavior if it wasn't just white supremacy, and even then it seemed unlikely to me.
I'm also not that knowledgable about autism. I just have a hard time understanding the mild reaction it's getting.
There's a mild reaction from media because media conglomerates are on board with the plan. Commentators made up the autistic apology immediately on the spot, because they're ableist and assholes themselves.
It's like media excusing sexual predators because they had a rough life growing up gay and similar excuses. It's a double whammy, excusing the offender in the public light while simultaneously demonizing a minority. It's a playbook neo fascist move.