this post was submitted on 31 May 2025
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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

You know what, to some extent here, mea culpa. I misread the intent of your original comment. Without going through with a comb I'll just gesture at an apology for most of it, but disagree on two particularly important matters.

You're still wrong in your attitude regarding "I fucking hate Churchill. Churchill, Stalin, Hitler, and others are all equally fucked people," statement in your comment. Churchill's famines were driven by willful negligence and contempt of a people he deemed subhuman, thus worthy of starvation and instrumentalization towards other goals. This kind of racist disregard for people is still seen today and doing harm given how calamities that disproportionately affect the global south are treated as secondary to matters that affect white people. Just look at the "civilized world's" response to the Russo-Ukraine war and genocide in Palestine. Same thing has been happening for decades, where horrendous civil wars, acts of oppressive violence, and all manner of disaster whether man made or natural, are treated with polite brow furrowing at best from "The West," if not readily permitted and supported. Churchill's Brand of racism is alive and well and it's body count grows annually. Hitler and Nazism were/are uniquely evil in their explicit intent to murder people not out of a lesser regard for their humanity, but a complete denial of it. The mere existence of Jews, LGBTQ+ folks, Roma, the disabled, and anyone else considered an "untermensch" was itself treated as a threat that needed to be eradicated. This is distinctly worse than liberal/capitalist racism's deprioritozation of black and brown or disabled people. At least under capitalism's grotesque logic you have a right to exist so long as you're economically valuable to the bottom line, it's no willful extinction drive.

Compare those two ideologies and their champions to Communism and Stalin, and you've gone and done a grave injustice to history. There's no evidence that Stalin had any kind of animosity to Ukrainians themselves, nor racial prejudice guiding his policies and politics. Deaths that occurred in the Soviet Union may have been prevented and that is unfortunate, but this is in the context of Stalin rapidly industrializing the least developed nation in Europe in the face of the genocidal threat of Hitler, something so unique and evil it simply cannot be compared to any other kind of atrocity in history, and to do so is to inadvertently white wash it from the start. The entire framing of Stalin as some kind of moral equivalent of Hitler is pure anti communist brain worms.

Second matter is in regards to your line, "Ukrainians themselves call it the Holodomor. There is evidence of Ukrainians using this terminology even before glasnost."

I appreciate another user of lemmgrad for linking a relevant source for how the framing of the Holodomor as some super special event worthy of breathless condemnation at every mention of the Soviet Union originates from and perpetuates Nazi ideology. I'll include another source which identifies similar patterns across Eastern Europe.

https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

Relevant quote:

"The Holocaust is not referred to simply as the “Nazi genocide,” but has its own names — Yiddish, der Khurbn, Hebrew, ha-Shoah, English, the Holocaust — to signify a unique event. It is more than a linguistic curiosity that postwar attempts by some Jewish groups to subsume the Holocaust as one of the historic massacres endured by the Jews that are mourned on Tíshebov (Tisha b’Av) failed, because of the virtually unanimous feeling among survivors that this one, in 20th-century Europe, was so very different, and intrinsically incomparable with even the primary ancient national catastrophes of destruction and exile.

The Holocaust cannot, must not, be subsumed — but that is precisely what the Double Genocide theory seeks to do. It is the primary new mainstream form of Holocaust Denial, and should be treated with at least as much outrage as President Trump’s invocation of supposed moral equivalence between people who came to Charlottesville, Virginia in Nazi-style torch-lit processions to chant, “Jews will not replace us” and the Nazis’ “Blood and Soil” in English translation (they had to make their connection to Hitler-era Nazism), and those who came to protest them. Infinitely, infinitely less can the Holocaust itself be considered as a moral equal of some other “bad thing” from its period in history — other than for the proponents of Bogus moral equivalence, who use it as a tool of discourse, sophistry, casuistry, to talk the Holocaust out of history without denying a single death."

Lastly, a point of order. On Hexbear there are not downvotes. Comments and posts on our instance do not show them nor even have an option for us to use them. For me, your comment is locked at 1 because presumably nobody has upvoted it. While I don't expect that to change, nobody is going to downvote it either.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago