FediLore + Fedidrama

2908 readers

51 users here now

Rules

Any drama must be posted as an observer, you cannot post drama that you are involved with.
When posting screenshots of drama, you must obscure the identity of all the participants.
The poster must have a credible post and comment history before submitting a piece of history. This is to avoid sock-puppetry and witch hunts.

The usual instance-wide rules also apply.

Chronicle the life and tale of the fediverse (+ matrix)

Largely a sublemmy about capturing drama, from fediverse spanning drama to just lemmy drama.

Includes lore like how a instance got it's name, how an instance got defederated, how an admin got doxxed, fedihistory etc

(New) This sub's intentions is to an archive/newspaper, as in preferably don't get into fights with each other or the ppl featured in the drama

Tags: fediverse news, lemmy news, lemmyverse

Partners:

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

feddit.org defederated quokk.au for calling their mods zionists (lemmy.blahaj.zone)

submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

86 comments fedilink hide all child comments

https://feddit.org/post/12851368

https://feddit.org/post/12529640

due to the previously communicated defamation campaign by quokk.au, which was later followed by defederation by them after we requested them to remove their censure, we have now defederated from quokk.au.

One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.

We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.

If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Thank you for the answer. I guess it's understandable. Though the original comment in this post doesn't deny the existence of an Israeli state.

But it does mean that I don’t compare it to Nazism.

This isn't the same as calling someone you don't like a Nazi. But even then, the term Nazi, in this day and age, no longer just means people who idolize Hitler and hate on Jews. Its use has expanded to include all those who are willing to genocide another group of people and more.

And though I can see the need to separate the semantics within Germany itself, due to its history and laws, its supposed misappropriation is an irrelevant discussion at this stage. A lot of Israeli's are very openly and loudly advocating for the erasure of the Palestinian people, even children and innocent people. It's not even a joke, that they are using the same terminologies and tactics. It is impossible to not conflate them with Nazis.

This isn't to deny the Jewish struggle, of course, this is to say that calling the Israeli government and stooges Nazis isn't an invalidation of the Jewish struggle. These people are, save for a time machine, literal Nazis (the IDF, the Israeli government and anyone advocating for the erasure of Palestinians).

You are arguing semantics when we are long past that.

Even then, it's a flimsy argument. It just feels like another measure to maintain a semblance of historical guilt by the government, not an actual effort to help the Jewish people. If you can show me where "misusing" the label Nazi is worse for the Jewish people and their struggles, than the literal genocide of the Palestinian people by a Jewish state, I'll change my mind.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

People forget that the fundation of nazizm is the aryan pseudo race. While jews was for them the ultimate enemy of the aryan race, nazis killed other groups people with handicaps, homosexuals and slaves and poles

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 days ago (2 children)

this is to say that calling the Israeli government and stooges Nazis isn’t an invalidation of the Jewish struggle.

I am a lot more tolerant about calling the Israeli government and Israeli fascists Nazis. Semantically, one could make arguments against it, but at this time and day, I'd agree, I have no intention to defend them - they deserve the hatred.

Now, if someone calls the entirety of Zionism, or every Israeli Jew a Nazi is something I oppose. This would be a massive inversion of reality and I don't want to see that rhetoric on my instance. I know there is nuance and there are a number of things I'd be willing to concede - but I am glad that the most hateful and deranged comments get removed. What this quokk.au admin said is certainly in the territory of being deranged.

If you can show me where “misusing” the label Nazi is worse for the Jewish people and their struggles, than the literal genocide of the Palestinian people by a Jewish state, I’ll change my mind.

I would instead ask you to stop pitting two people's struggles against each other. We would never compare different types of struggles the same way. One thing is bad. Another thing is worse. But that second thing does not make the first thing okay. Especially when you have the privilege of not being part of either group. If you acknowledge that misusing Nazi labels (on the people oppressed by the Nazis) is wrong, then it follows that you cannot justify doing that by saying that there are other people who are worse off.

You are arguing semantics when we are long past that.

I hope we can concur that in this discussion, neither of us are helping the Palestinians in any kind of form. This whole thread is about a toxic lemmy admin who victimized themself for suffering consequences for their violent/insulting language. I'd feel a lot more comfortable in pro-palestinian spaces that can do without this sort of toxicity.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

But I am glad that the most hateful and deranged comments get removed.

I would be first in line to die on the hill if it was about letting the Jewish people have their own state, everyone has that right. But the original comment wasn't about anything against that, the comment wasn't hateful. It was just arguing a perspective arguing that weapons funding should be cut to the Israeli state to help mitigate the genocide that they are propagating.

I can't argue for what happened afterwards in-between the admins, but the removal of the comment was unnecessary. Instead of invalidating an arguable issue, it was conversely invalidating the genocide of another group of humans (is it because they are brown?) in an effort to aggressively enforce a law. Whatever the law is, it needs updating from holocaust to genocide in general, otherwise you are picking which skin colored people you are okay with being murdered on mass.

I would instead ask you to stop pitting two people’s struggles against each other.

When it comes to the usage of Nazi as a label, the intent matters grossly. If someone was doing this just to satisfy some morbid requirement (like Russia is with Ukraine) then it's obviously wrong, But even there, I think that's a different matter than holocaust denial, it doesn't hurt the Jewish people as much as a state that represents them committing mass murder does. A lot of people died in the holocaust besides the Jewish people you know? And the Nazis were responsible for a lot more atrocities than just that. The Label isn't just for the Jewish people's struggle. Being a Nazi is about being a race supremacist and genociding people.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Israel couldn't exists without mass displacement and israel was funded because of zionism which they did. Israel since it's creation been oppresing palestinians and comiting war crime. Saying that we should just condemn Natanyaho is ignoring facts