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Calls for defederation - Is the idea of the open marketplace of ideas outdated? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Lately I see a lot of calls do have specific instances defederated for a particular subset of reasons:

Don't like their content
Dont like their political leaning
Dont like their free speech approach
General feeling of being offended
I want a safe space!
This instance if hurting vulnerable people

I personally find each and every one of these arguments invalid. Everybody has the right to live in an echo chamber, but mandating it for everyone else is something that goes a bit too far.

Has humanity really developed into a situation where words and thoughts are more hurtful than sticks and stones?

Edit: Original context https://slrpnk.net/post/554148

Controversial topic, feel free to discuss!

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is the idea of the open marketplace of ideas outdated?

Yes, it is. We ran this experiment with 8chan already. I consider Frederick Brennans opinion on internet moderation pretty well-tested by reality, unlike the 'free speech absolutists' I meet. Musk is a classic poster boy for that mindset and the instant he was given power his convictions really amounted to 'hide the stuff I don't like, boost the stuff I do'. So I think we should all be suspicious of people who claim this at this point.

8chan exists, as do lots of deeper, darker unmoderated boards. If they are superior, why aren't the majority of people there? Why are they almost universally despised and shamed?

Has humanity really developed into a situation where words and thoughts are more hurtful than sticks and stones?

No, humanity lives in reality where thoughts lead to actions and pretending like there's a firewall between the two is unrealistic. 8chan is routinely linked to mass shootings, and NOT JUST IN THE USA

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So your conclusion is: "Dear admins, defederate from everything I deem offensive?"

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No, how silly. Where did you get that idea?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I had that impression from your initial response, but I might have misunderstood.

I still disagree that thought and speech lead deterministically to action which is a thing you actually stated. Your argument is the same as the one used against POV shooters and there's no evidence for this claim.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago

Yes, my stance is far from 'ban everything I dont like'. But you need to understand that 'ban nothing at all' (which is what free speech absolutists argue for) is on the other extreme of the moderation spectrum. I like to think I fall somewhere in the middle.

it's hardly a binary choice between the 2 so I was thrown when you instantly assumed that.

There's plenty of evidence that 8chan leads to mass shootings as many of the shooters leave vast manifestos on the site itself referencing beliefs they learned on the site. It has nothing to do with video games. If you want to claim that 'words and beliefs never lead to actions' that's fine but I think that's obviously false. In fact I'd say all actions are the result of our beliefs.

its fine for us to disagree here.