this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2025
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Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.

For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community

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Everybody loves Wikipedia, the surprisingly serious encyclopedia and the last gasp of Old Internet idealism!

(90 seconds later)

We regret to inform you that people write credulous shit about "AI" on Wikipedia as if that is morally OK.

Both of these are somewhat less bad than they were when I first noticed them, but they're still pretty bad. I am puzzled at how the latter even exists. I had thought that there were rules against just making a whole page about a neologism, but either I'm wrong about that or the "rules" aren't enforced very strongly.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

The prompt engineering article has 61 sources. Why should it not exist? What’s your source for that?

If the vibe coding article violates the rules, nominate it for deletion and cite the rules then.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

The number of sources isn't really the issue; many of those are industry advertisements, such as blog posts on product pages, for instance. Out of the few that are papers, almost all are written exclusively by industry research teams — while that doesn't on its own invalidate their results, it does mean that there's a strong financial interest in the non-consensus view (in particular, that LLMs can be "programmed"). The few papers that have been peer-reviewed have extreme methodological flaws, such that there's essentially almost no support for the article's bombastic and extreme non-consensus claims.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

For posterity: English Wikipedia is deletionist, so your burden of proof is entirely backwards. I know this because I quit English WP over it; the sibling replies are from current editors who have fully internalized it. English WP's notability bar is very high and not moved by quantity of sources; it also has suffered from many cranks over the years, and we should not legitimize cranks merely because they publish on ArXiv.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

i'm more frustrated that NPOV has been forced into secondary positions behind reliable sources. just because a reliable source has said something does not justify its inclusion in an article where its inclusion would disturb the NPOV.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

Please acquaint yourself with the definition of the word latter on your way to the egress.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

no thx, nobody came here for you to assign them tedious homework

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Its fine if you don't want to do the 'homework,' but op doesn't get to complain about the rules not being enforced on the notoriously democratic editable-by-anyone wikipedia and refuse to take up the trivial 'homework' of starting the rule violation procedure. The website is inherently a 'be the change you want to see in the world' platform.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

there’s something fucking hilarious about you and your friend coming here to lecture us about how Wikipedia works, but explaining the joke to you is also going to be tedious as shit and I don’t have any vegan nacho fries or junior mints to improve my mood

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

Wikipedia rules make more sense when you understand they are entirely to keep the most pedantic nerds on earth from fighting

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

oh yeah, I’m waiting for David to wake up so he can read the words

the trivial ‘homework’ of starting the rule violation procedure

and promptly explode, cause fielding deletion requests from people like our guests who don’t understand wikipedia’s rules but assume they’re, ah, trivial, is probably a fair-sized chunk of his workload

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

my lethal weapon is my WP:WTF

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Counterpoint: I get to complain about whatever I want.

I could write a lengthy comment about how a website that is nominally editable by "anyone" is in practice a walled garden of acronym-spouting rules lawyers who will crush dissent by a thousand duck nibbles. I could elaborate upon that observation with an analogy to Masto reply guys and FOSS culture at large.

Or I could ban you for fun. I haven't decided yet. I'm kind of giddy from eating a plate of vegan nacho fries and a box of Junior Mints.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

acronym-spouting rules lawyers

That's pretty much the response I got offering even extremely mild dissent from AI spam. Apparently, "WP:MNA" means you can just make shit up as long as industry blog posts rely on that wild fever dream being true, for instance. Handy!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

you realise i'm gonna ask for links to your example of this being misapplied here

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's deep in the replies to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prompt_engineering#Neutral_point_of_view. Thanks as well for reinstating the NPOV template, really bothers me that it was unilaterally deleted without any addressing of the problem.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 weeks ago

So perhaps one alternative way to estimate their quality is to check the number of citations, many have more than 100 citations, which is a sign of quality

Andrew Wakefield's 1998 paper has 457 citations on PubMed

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

I could elaborate upon that observation with an analogy to Masto reply guys and FOSS culture at large.

Please do, I wanna see FOSS get raked over the coals

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

acronym-spouting rules lawyers who will crush dissent by a thousand duck nibbles

hey now, my duck nibbling is thoroughly weaponised