this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
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politics
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It's certainly not genuine good faith engagement. But yeah not obvious "trolling" no matter how dismissive and off putting their responses can be. They have some sort of personal need for engagement. And way too much free time to pursue it in. Two things combined with unwillingness to understand or acknowledge the arguments other people make. That come off so toxic.
If "not genuine good faith engagement", "dismissive", "need for engagement", "too much free time", "unwillingness to understand or acknowledge other arguments", and "toxicity" aren't signs that someone is trolling, then can you please share the definition of trolling you're using? In my eyes all of those things are classic troll behaviors.
Just because it can be, doesn't mean it is. It's absolutely taken on more trollish overtones of late. They weren't always this way. If you want to go dumpster diving, months ago there were moments and posts of introspection.
It's not healthy behavior regardless. But I can understand it. I don't tolerate Leninist/tankie hypocrisy, and feel pretty self righteous calling them out on it. Viewing their silent down votes as affirmation. It would be easy to behave similarly to them. Pestering etc. Hell I have done it in the past. And if I was a person prone to the magical thinking of dogma and ideology I probably still would be. But I value my time, logic, and reason much more. And enjoy it much more to engage with someone, that even if we don't agree in the end. We don't talk past each other. But focus on actually having a fruitful discussion.
So, again, can you define "troll" for me? I think you and I are operating based on fundamentally different definitions, and I'd like to see yours spelled out so I can understand the difference.
Only after you define a patronizing. And explain why you've chosen to ignore what was said. I literally said it's taken on trollish tone recently. But I don't believe it's their actual MO. To be clear I'm not arguing that they should not be banned or trying to defend them. I honestly think there's much more to suggest mental illness going on there than gleeful trolling. But I see that it's wildly important for you personally to only see them definitely as a troll. Despite the fact that being undaunted and a bit spammy is the biggest accusation that you have. I honestly am getting much more trollish vibe from you than I have ever gotten from monk all the times I disagreed with them and pointed it out. Which to be clear I've largely stopped engaging with them at this point because of the uselessness.
The definition you gave in your initial comment is the definition I use. I very clearly didn't ignore what you said, have no idea what "a patronizing" has to do with anything, and asked you a very simple question, which you ignored.
The fact that after only two replies you went straight to personal attacks tells me I'm unlikely to get anything productive out of this exchange.
I already came to that conclusion with you two posts ago. If you actually care. Perhaps you should go back and look at what you said. The tone with which you said it. And try to understand. You get what you give. And to be clear I don't say this with a patronizing tone. It's something I have to absolutely have to watch myself on as well.
Looking at some of their threads, the trolling type behavior seemed directed at users who were already fairly antagonistic to them to begin with, then it turned in to trolling back and forth all the way down.
Yeah, there's a bit of spiderman-meme going on with this. They were a spammer and the duplicated posts certainly raise some authenticity questions, but it seems like the people citing their posting as obvious incivility were upset that they responded to their own antagonism with a dismissive lack of engagement.
The only other "trolling" they did just seemed to be being anti-Democratic when a lot of people don't like that and think it requires response. It's hard to imagine how someone could express those (presumed) views in a way that wouldn't be considered trolling by them. If this was /c/democrats, that could definitely be considered trolling, but /c/politics isn't organized as a fan club.
Absolutely. I have no love for monk. I've left communities they were involved with. Generally downvote them on sight. But a lot of the people screaming "troll" the loudest. Are easily as guilty of such behavior as the accused. I don't see Monk going to others threads regularly seeking attention that way. I generally only see them post on their own posts, or replies to posts they got. And when they post to the politics community for instance. Things that generally would be popular with most there. Downvoted to oblivion and that's that.
Yup. In 90% of cases the answer is "don't engage and block them" but not enough people do that.
So the user you're responding to just accused me of being a troll. Yet you responded....
It is only trolling if they do it from the le beaucoup Trolle province of France.
LOL