this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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What Reddit has that lemmy doesn’t though is something called “nuance.” Which is how you end up with shit-tier posts like this one getting upvoted here.
For all the fault Reddit has, and there is a FUCKTONS of it, no one that I’ve seen on Reddit supports genocide- that is, unless you go to specific subreddits. But then again, there are specific communities here that also seem to support it.
So, no- What the problem is here- is that OP is notorious for accusing EVERYONE of supporting genocide if they so much as even slightly disagree with their bullshit. The mod logs speak for themselves in the event anyone wants to challenge this and accuse me of lying.
In fact, they were recently banned from a community for exactly that. They have a history of spreading misinformation and trolling.
Now, let’s see how accurate I was about that whole nuance thing.
Why are we blaming voters again when a million dollar campaign loses against a historically unpopular criminal insurrectionist president... ?
The campaign has the power to pander to voters if it's clear they can't win without doing so, they just refuse to and instead are comfortably riding the threat of Trump to the finish line without offering a single thing more.
Your fellow voters that conscientiously object to genocide, are not your enemy. You are being failed by the Democrats, and you are enabling this genocidal policy by directing your anger at the voters instead of pressuring your candidate to change it. If they lose, it's a strategic failure and they are the only ones to blame for it.
New flash- almost everyone objects to genocide. You don’t belong do some grassroots movement of high-minded academics that somehow managed to figure out that genocide is bad.
Wow so it sounds like being the non-genocidal option would be a great way to get people to vote for you if you really care about winning
And that’s what people who vote for Harris are doing. Because they understand how things work. You’re free to throw away your vote in protest of things that have been going on since before you ever could point to Palestine on a map…
but the rest of us are going to try our best to ensure you continue to have the rights to be able to do that. Do be sure to accuse me of supporting genocide on the way out. It does wonders to garner support for your ideology.
Acting like you're superior and "understand how things work" better than anyone else, not recognizing the obvious wedge being driven between democratic voters and left-wing voters whom we otherwise agree with, is also doing wonders for your side. I'm sure your vote will make the difference in protecting rights that the Democrats have done absolutely nothing to defend in the face of power grabs and media smears from the right. I'm certain that the Democrats will do the right thing, just out of the goodness and JOY of their hearts, nevermind that their power is guaranteed by the Republicans being a worse option.
Never said you were supporting it, I said you were enabling it. If you want to conflate the two to protect your ego then that's up to you.
If understanding how things work is what makes a person superior, you probably don’t want to be shitting on it, but maybe trying to get there yourself.
But I don’t feel as if I’m in any way superior because I get how the real world works. I do however, feel superior because I don’t accuse people of shit they aren’t doing, like say…. sUpPoRtiNG gEnoCiDe!
What I see here a lot though, is what seems to be a bunch of smug and arrogant people sitting on high, casting aspersions at others because they support someone that is doing their best to ensure we keep our democracy.
What I see, are people willing to throw away votes over single-issue protests that most of them have shown not to even understand.
I’m not going to apologize to you for paying attention. That’s not a fault. It’s an obligation.
lol
Didn't say that
Didn't do that
Didn't do that either, see my last reply to this thread
Tell me how you're not doing that same exact thing
No they're not
FTFY
Again, you're assuming your understanding is better than anyone else's and not colored by billion dollar, lifelong propaganda campaigns, manufacturing consent to enact bloody imperialism on the rest of the world and keep the (lucrative for private capital) war machine turning, rather than any actual history of the conflict in palestine or actual material plan to "protect democracy" here at home.
Neither will I
Never said it was and I agree.
Hilarious! It’s a badge of honor to have a socialists compartmentalize and pick apart your comments with their notes and insufferable smug corrections.
I always love it when this happens.
If you stop reading me and those objecting to genocide like adversaries instead of potential allies, and move past the monkey brain telling you to fear fear fear the unknown, you might find very little to disagree with in what we're actually saying. You might find it in yourself at least to resist the urge to alienate voters that are paying attention and care enough to find such a legitimate objection, mobilize for protests, and organize a voting bloc large enough that it threatens the power of the democratic establishment (only if they do not make a good faith attempt to meet these voters' demands, of course, which shows how little faith you have in the power of organizing, which calls into question your plan for after the election, but that's besides my point)
I disagreed with third party and non-votes myself at first, but then I saw how people like you treated others simply for finding their voices and using them to stand up for justice. I saw that what you are saying does not line up with the realities of the democratic platform, that it didn't 4 years ago either, and that the democrats aren't really promising anything that I could use to argue with undecided voters. I asked myself how progress could ever happen if this is how I am compelled to treat those pushing for it, and I could not find an answer. I couldn't beat them, so I joined them.
I realized you actually might not have it all figured out if your only means of recruiting these people to vote for the Democrats; again, people that care and argue with very reasonable logic; is to shout them down and silence them with deeply and nakedly flawed talking points. All while expending energy that you could be directing at someone with any power to change things and to capture that vote.
We've been through the same shit with climate change and countless other examples. The "invisible hand of the free market" is bullshit, you cannot make systemic change with individual action and no amount of shouting at people and following them around to brigade their posts will change that. It has to come from the top, and the only way we can influence the top is as a collective.
It's not being "smug" or any of the things you've said I've done, you just aren't able to find any good argument to the contrary so you attack the way I come off to you. I'm disagreeing with you on something you have strong feelings about, so I come off as an adversary and you project adversarial traits onto me which, to be clear, are not there.
Well with the way you argue, projecting your own actions onto the other person and not producing any argument of substance, this must happen quite a bit, and you must be a very proud and joyful person. Good for you.
The largest problem facing wider adoption of Lemmy IMO is that many of the people who were banned from reddit for being poorly socialized ended up on a Lemmy instance, and many of them remain unwilling to view their behavior as the problem.
Many mods/admins need to do a better job of keeping their communities welcoming, imo. Engagement for engagement's sake makes no sense on nonprofit platforms.
Lemmy being the Australia of social networks. We do what we can mate 🇦🇺
Thanks for proving my point. I couldn’t have scripted that better! Seems you’re running out of places to post your propaganda.
I love that for you!
So are you denying that genocide is happening right now in Palestine or what? Because I don't really understand the misinformation claim here
Really? It’s not obvious? Op is blatantly and flat out accusing an entire social media platform of supporting genocide.
No One is supporting it because they are voting for Harris. That’s misinformation. It’s blatant propaganda. And it’s evidence of a bad-faith attempt to influence an election.
So wait, Harris is for a change of policy regarding Israel? Pretty sure she wants to continue on what was before - which is longstanding support of Israel, which at the moment is committing genocide.
I’m not going to argue this with you. I know what you’re about and I’m not falling for it.
Just lean what nuance means. And try and do better in the future.
You aren't arguing with me because you want to handwave support for genocide as "nuance", call everyone talking about it a propagandist and sleep better at night knowing you support "the good guys".
I’m not going to argue with you because no matter what I say, as evident above- you are going to rewrite my words, and argue against that.
In other words, I don’t debate straw men.
There is no strawman. Harris supports Israel, same as Biden supports Israel. Israel is committing genocide. So Harris supports Israel in committing genocide. There is no nuance here - just bitter truth to swallow - the US is sending carriers, troops. The US is sending bombs that kill people in Gaza.
And there’s the nuance you appear to lack an understanding of. I’m only going to do this once:
This take of yours is just bad math. You think there’s a cause and effect here, but it seems that you lack the understanding of how nuanced the situation actually is.
For starters, I’m going to guess that you have no idea about the history between Israel and Palestine prior to October of last year. So you don’t know that the attacks issued from both sides of this conflict is something that’s gone on for decades. (Which makes their history a very nuanced situation)
You might also not know how trade agreements work. So this would mean that for you- breaking one is should be simple and easy, and free of any repercussions!
It’s not. (It’s VERY nuanced)
Lastly, a vote for a person that adheres to a policy that you don’t agree with, isn’t by default, a showing of support of that thing. (Again, nuance) For example:
• I don’t support child labor, yet I have a mobile device. (See? Nuance)
• I don’t support global warming, yet I drive a car. (There’s that nuance again)
• I don’t support violence against women, yet I have watched a few movies produced by Weinstein. (Getting the picture?)
THIS is what nuance is. It illustrates the ignorance of black and white thinking. Right and wrong thinking. Rigidity vs. moral flexibility.
You want to paint in such broad strokes that everthing is either with you- or against you without seeming having learned how any of it actually works.
Great job going "I'm going to guess" and assuming the exact opposite of what I know. A vote for a person supporting genocide isn't nuanced - you just want it to be. It's not broad strokes - it's just reality. You talk about me being black and white yet it's obvious what your views are and how according to you the US can do nothing wrong and that Palestinians deserve it. Further yet, you refuse to notice the fact that what's happening isn't grey - Israel is murdering thousands of Palestinians, displacing a million of them. You are a fence sitter and go "a little genocide is okay when it's my country that supports it, I just need to handwave it away as grey morality". You called another user a propagandist for saying "this is a genocide supported by the current president and the next democrat candidate". Those statements are true and they deserve all the shit they get for it. There is no excuse.
Also great job speaking about breaking trade agreements like that's an excuse to fuel a murderous regime. Do you even read what you write? Do you even have a shred of empathy? It doesn't matter that it is hard or has repercussions - you do it to hold onto your principles and to show you want peace. You do it to save lives. It sends a clear message saying "we don't support this" to every country that's watching this conflict. It sends an even clearer message to Israel - that the US won't blindly allow them to destabilize the region by launching multiple wars with its neighbors and erasing a population.
The UN calls sending weapons to Israel a serious violation of human rights, international humanitarian laws and says it risks complicity in international crimes, including genocide. Show me the nuance and grayness of the situation, when the UN Human Rights Council directly calls out the United States and the specific companies doing it. Show me the nuance in the UN calling the war in Lebanon a human rights catastrophe.
Socialists that give a shit about what the UN thinks? Hmmm…. I guess you’ll use anything that helps you make whatever point you think you have.
Either way… I knew I was wasting my time. Never again. There’s no getting through to you people.
Waste your vote. You’re free to do so.
For now.