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No Policy Change: In CNN Interview, Harris Refuses to Condition U.S. Military Support for Israel
(www.democracynow.org)
this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2024
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"Grandpa, what did you do when the genocides were happening?"
"Told people off for not being enthusiastic about voting for pro-genocide candidates"
"I told them to vote for the candidate that would finish the job, sweetheart"
"No, I meant the one in Sudan"
"There was one in Sudan? Well, I didn't do anything. You see, there were no Democrats to blame"
We aren't selling weapons for the genocide in Sudan.
Quit whatabouting in support of genocide.
So you're not actually against genocide. You just want someone else to supply the weapons. If China would just take over IDF arms shipments, then you could ignore Gaza too.
What the heck is this argument? "Well SOMEONE is going to supply the weapons for mass slaughter, might as well be us!"
The argument is: it makes no difference who supplies the weapons. The only thing that matters is who exerts the most pressure to get a ceasefire.
My government isn't spending my tax money to make me an accessory to the genocide in Sudan. You're just happy that your tax money is being used for a cause you support: the genocide in Gaza.
I don't think the person you responded to ever mention being happy about genocide. Why would you lie about that?
So they expect everyone else to be happy about genocide while being unhappy about it themselves? That makes no sense.
I trust that you'll also be calling all the people who accuse anyone who is even slightly unhappy about genocide of being trump supporters liars too, right?
When did the person you responded to say that anyone is or is expected to be happy about genocide?
So the answer to this is "fuck no, I only call people who don't support genocide liars."
No, I'm just calling you a liar. You are literally saying that person you're referring to said they are happy about genocide, and that others should be happy about genocide, which never happened. You are making up the words that were never said to emotionally support your view.
But I will also say, if you think that not voting for Harris in November will in any will help end the genocide, you're grossly mistaken, and such an action would be in direct support of Trump's presidential election. Interpret those facts how you will.
I'm still voting for Harris, despite the constant accusations of pro-genocide centrists to the contrary.
Oh, so you're going to go around and telling anyone that's voting for Harris and supports her over Trump, that they are happy and complacent with genocide, and then you're still going to vote for her like somehow you're different? Holy shit is that the most hypocritical thing I've read in a long time. That's quite the high pedestal you've put yourself on there.
It's almost as though there's some other reason I say that people who accuse anyone who objects to genocide of being a Trump supporter are supporting genocide.
I didn't do that, you made that up too.
I didn't say you did. Would you like me to start calling you a liar about things you haven't said? Because that's kinda your whole thing. Well, your whole thing when you're talking to people who aren't 100% in favor of genocide.
Your comments were directed at me, clearly. If you can point to any times that I claimed something not true, you can certainly call me a liar. Instead, you keep claiming falsehoods about people supporting genocide. I have seen exactly 0 comments that are pro genocide. You are making claims that are verifiably false. That's why I'm calling you a liar, because you have made no factual statements.
Persecution complex much?
I was referring to the people on this thread who accuse genocide opponents of being trump supporters. If that's you, it wouldn't surprise me, but I wasn't referring to you.
Here's one:
It's accusing anyone who has any objections to the genocide of being Trump supporters pretending to be leftists. You don't have to feign illiteracy whenever someone you agree with says the only part out loud.
"I trust that you'll also be calling all the people who accuse anyone who is even slightly unhappy about genocide of being trump supporters liars too, *right*?"
That was a reply from you to me. It's not a persecution complex when you literally did that I said you did.
Where in your example of a pro genocide comment, does it suggest that anyone against genocide is a Trump supporter? Nowhere, because it didn't happen. You are just making up more shit.
You called me a liar. You didn't call the "you don't support genocide so you're a trumpist" people liars.
You're pretending it isn't what they said? Gaslight someone else.
Do you believe that genocide is wrong? I have to ask because I haven't seen any indication at all that you do, and you've made it clear that you really don't like it when centrists are called out on the only argument they have for their continued support for genocide.
I think genocide is bad. I think Israel is committing genocide against Palestine. It's absolutely disgusting and I would love if the USA could/would somehow cut the cord on support until they stop permanently. I say "could" because when talking about geopolitics, the world is extremely complicated, and I know that I, and probably every person here, don't know everything the US government does regarding relations with Israel and the implications of cutting off support. I'm not putting on a tin foil hat or anything, I just know that I don't know everything, so it would be disingenuous to say that it's as easy as just saying no to Israel.
The problem I have, is that comments like yours saying that Harris is 100% pro genocide, which is an emotionally charged statement to complex situation. Those types of comments infer information, pass it as facts, and then use that to attack her. I don't think there is anything wrong with being critical of the situation, and i believe discourse is healthy for growth and betterment, but these are just brute force attacks that don't help the situation. They don't leave room for an open dialogue, and are more likely to hurt Harris's chances of winning in November. I do believe that at the root of of these statements, the intent is to pressure the admin for change, but I think that it has the adverse effect due to the way the argument is presented, especially because currently as VP, she doesn't have the power to change anything anyway.
I feel like a broken record saying this in Lemmy, but when November comes, there will be two candidates with a chance to be POTUS. Until then, Harris's #1 goal is to get elected, because if that doesn't happen then she can't do anything anyways. Attacking that and turning off voters can end the most important part of change. After the election is complete and if she wins, go to town on the hard protesting when she actually can enact change and Trump is no longer a legitimate threat to the future of the US and likely a much worse situation for Palestine.
To reiterate, I hope Netanyahu faces punishment for the atrocities that he has ordered. I hope that there is a Nuremberg Trials type situation once all of this is resolved, and that people face consequence. I hope that I'm wrong and it's super easy, and that Harris sees the light and says "no".
I never said that, but you have no issue at all with lying, do you? Just when you take personal offense on behalf of genocide supporters.
Coulda fooled me.
That doesn't mean there can't be daylight between her and Biden. She's not the Secretary of State. She can differ from the president on foreign policy.
You'll find some other excuse to demand silence about genocide at that point.
If you really thing genocide is wrong, you should say something without prompting instead of demanding silence on the flimsy notion that griping about genocide on a tiny fledgling platform is somehow going to make all the dug-in pro-genocide centrists here suddenly drop their support for Harris.
It isn't just that libs will find another reason to complain about protests after the election, it's that libs won't care anymore because they already got what they wanted.
You protest during election cycles because that's when policy is being negotiated. You don't go on a labor strike after the union has signed the contract, you go on strike to get them to agree to concessions while the contract is being negotiated
Well, as long as your hands are clean then you have nothing to worry about.
Because the most important thing you need in Gaza is that you can look yourself in your mirror each day and that you can feel good about yourself.
One of us certainly does. You're fucking proud to be an accessory to genocide and want anyone who isn't to shut up.