Cross-posted from "TRUE communism!" by @[email protected] in [email protected]
this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2025
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Bait used to be believable...
disengage
Traditionally your kind only does that when all the other leftists are dead and it's time to sign treaties with fascists.
Remember when after signing Molotov Ribbentrop, Stalin was best buddies with Hitler, they split Poland, and nothing happened afterward? No particular thing, no largest land war in human history, no 27 million dead Soviets who were killed by the fascists that the UK and other Western European allies had... also signed treaties with?
my kind? what is that supposed to be referring to?
Red fascists.
A term to distinguish from the people who can wag anti-communism in front of you to gain your uncritical support
quite a conclusion to jump from 'disengage' to that, plus I'm an anarchist
You wrote that explicitly to shame people from using a rule meant to cool down comment sections, and you wrote that to promote the "left unity" delusion by jumping on the attempted bullying bandwagon, so their assumptions are rational at least.
that's quite an accusation, I think it's reasonable to infer insincerity from my words, but shame? I think that's coming from somewhere else. I was mostly being glib responding to someone calling your post bait.
that's an awful lot to read into one word. I'm pretty sure I was just making a joke, sorry that it was at your expense but I don't think that's bullying.
Follow up question: if that was bullying then what does that say about the people doing red scare smear campaigns based on what server people are on?
Oh, so ridiculing the use of the disengage rule does not have the effect of shaming people from using it?
Context matters. You came to an attempted bullying thread and thought "Oh, I'd better pile on the side defending ML regimes". As I said, It's a rational assumption.
I came into a bait thread and made a joke about someone posting a bait thread and then telling pretty much everyone responding to the bait to disengage.
It's not that I have an issue with the rule, or intended to discourage people from using it, but because posting something incendiary and then dodging earnest responses to the bait with "disengage" is funny.
I am not dodging. As I've said many times in this thread, I'm using the disengage rule as a because I don't want (not that I can't) to argue in a fucking meme thread, but my autism compels me to, so this is my fucking coping mechanism to avoid wasting all my life rehashing 100-year old theory with 24 different terminally online tankies.
But yeah, it's easier to say "oh you don't want to argue for 2 weeks with 2 dozen different online theorists? owned!" and pile on, I get it. I don't excuse you shaming people from the disengage rule though. be better.
PS: Not bait. This is my own space. Tankies don't have to come here. I, in fact, don't want to deal with them. I'm just too fucking tolerant for my own mental good. But apparently even letting toxic people post here in masse is not good enough. Saying I don't want to argue in a meme thread isn't good enough. Trying to protect my mental health and time isn't good enough. Because the objective here is to just stop me from posting these sort of memes in the spirit of "left unity", so the bullying is the point. And you're part of that now, congrats.
Follow up question: if that is bullying then what does that say about the people doing the ongoing red scare smear campaign based on what server people are on?
I don't understand why you keep bringing this up? Am I engaging in this myself? I don't even have hexbear defederated (clearly). This line of questioning has "but what about Hamas?" vibes.
I brought it up because I've seen you engage in that in this very thread:
This just happened to be where I made my account 2 years ago, but clearly because of 'what .ml is" I can't be trusted. I will grant that you left yourself wiggle room by saying 'who knows', but you did say it was a valid assumption based on server.
.ML is clearly run and administered by MLs, we all know that. Being there doesn't make one a tankie or someone to be disregarded outright and I never accused anyone of it, but it is still a factor when trying to figure out someone's motivations, because staying there is a choice. I still don't think it's correct for that person to jump to the conclusion you're a tankie, but I understand why they did it. So neither did I call you bad from being from .ml, nor did I engage in "red scare". In fact I explicitly said I take your word for your allegiances, even though you behaviour has been defacto in defense of "left unity" which many anarchists reject outright.
However, If you think the choice of home instance never has any importance, I'd beg to disagree and I can present many examples of instances where simply being in them says a lot about the person.
Just as "many" anarchists may hold your specific opinions, I know plenty from years or organizing who are not as dogmatic about being sectarian. As I said I prefer to work with people like that just as you seem to prefer spaces like the anticommunist snark comms
Well so long as you come out of this smug enough about your superiority as an anarchist, it's all good.
isn't that what you were just doing by claiming that I have "allegiances and actions" that leave much to be desired by "many other anarchists"
turnabout is fair play, and the extent of my 'actions' and 'allegiances' that you claim "anarchists" disapprove of is entirely limited to posts on the Internet and thoughts in my head.
Exactly, that's the only thing I have to go with, and fact of the matter is all I see you doing is allying in bullying other anarchists alongside with tankies. Likewise, all you have to go for is me making an anarchist meme, then defending myself against a bullying attempt and the usual ugliness this leads to. And note that my phrasing was very exact. "Much to be desired by other anarchists like me". I.e. I don't mean I'm better than you, or that you're not a good anarchist, I'm just disappointed and wary.
Other anarchists participating in anticommunist snark comms and towing the line on that front dissappoints and leaves me wary too, hence my mockery of this particular situation.
I pointed out that I'm actually active as an anarchist in the real world because people routinely claim that I am something else. If you read that as claiming superiority then I read your reading as projection.
Yes, It does come as smug superiority when you go all "I work in actual real life orgs, I don't just post anticommunist snark online like you." How do you not see that? Do you see me flexing up my anarchist creds in this discussion?
I am disappointed in you because you are directly allying with non-anarchists to bully anarchists for their anarchist views (and because you chose to shame the disengage rule in the process). You are disappointed in me because I make fun of non-anarchist movements. I am happy that your scene has MLs that are collaborative with anarchists, but why is it so hard to not accept that other anarchists have different experiences than you?
It's not, I'm used to it. I'm not a fan of getting told I'm something other than what I am simply because of people's perception of me.
You think I'm "allying with" people because I don't feel comfortable being around anticommunists and made fun of the situation here.
I'm fine with the disengage rule, Im glad you are less aggressive at censorship than the rest of them, but I still found the behavior of baiting then disenaging something to make light of. I'm not going to tell you how to run your space.
Again I take your reading of me listing my experience as superiority as too sensitive. I get exasperated when I express something unorthodox and I get called a red fascist. In response I state my personal experience in organizing as an anarchist, to point out that making declaration about who is and isn't anarchist based on internet comments is silly.
I don't think posting anticommunism in the middle of widespread actual fascism is a good use of time, but I'm not going to say the people doing it aren't anarchists or are secretly fascists. The worst I might say for that is terminally online and misguided.
In that case, all I will say is maybe read the room? You're not acting in isolation and whether you realize it or not, you became part of something greater than just your post. Like I said elsewhere in here, it's like the fan group or some influencer all going to the target du-jour and leaving that one "mocking" comment. In isolation it's easily ignored, but you're not working in isolation, and honestly, I think you knew it.
In any case, I don't think we're getting anywhere with this discussion. You can have the last word.
You need to learn when to disengage yourself. This is obviously an unhealthy situation for you, and any potentially productive discussions are dead in the water.
You are a mod. Lock the post and move on with your day.
I disengage, I get mocked for it. I don't disengage, I get unsolicited advice from hostile onlookers to disengage. FFS!
Amazing how no matter what, they hate us.
Use the community rules? Somehow were authoritarians who can't debate.
Continue with bad faith gotchas? Now we're being lolcows.
Maybe Hexbear is just inherently bad faith.
Dude, just lock the fucking post already. You should’ve locked it yesterday when you were telling every person and their mother to disengage.
I know you don’t like “tankies” and probably want to ignore my advice out of spite but you need to learn when to remove yourself from an unhealthy situation.
Are you the leader of anarchism that gets to decide who is and isn't an anarchist? I've been trying to find whoever is in charge of the anarchists, it's an honor to meet you!
WTF are you on about, mate? I didn't even challenge their anarchist creds. Reading comprehension these days, I swear...
You're validating a user who's calling her a red fascist.
Read again. I just said it's a rational assumption. I didn't say it's a valid assumption as I don't know; just given their visible behaviour, what .ml is and what this thread has become, it would make sense to assume this. Whether it's actually true is another matter. I'm OK to take Diva's word for it that she's an anarchist, but of course her allegiances and actions leave much to be desired by other anarchists like me, so it's not like I would want to be in the same affinity group or anything.
The feeling is mutual, I prefer to organize with anarchists who are more interested in the work at hand than with policing each other's opinions.
I don't police anyone's opinions? Hell I even allow opinions I consider outright wrong and even toxic to stay up in this very thread . Likewise, all my work is prefigurative and visible for all to see. But apparently I can't even fucking post an anti-ML meme in peace now for an anarchist crowd and then. Gotta toe that line...
Soviet simping "anarchist" on the .ml instance who posts like a hexbear, huh. Bold claim, let's see who's dumb enough to believe it.
As we all know, anarchists love being on .ml and Hexbear. Why wouldn't they if they just obeyed the rules the party leader made?
What rules are there on Hexbear that are so anathema to your noble anti-authoritarian ideology? Do you think we have rules against criticizing socialist countries or something like that? We have arguments daily^[From today: https://hexbear.net/post/5423450/6303346] about China not helping their allies enough or not intervening internationally enough. We criticize the actions of socialist states all the time. So what "rules the party leader made"^[Hexbear's mod team and admin team is entirely made up of very active users so it's all very democratic, actually] is she supposed to be against on principle? What is it about Hexbear that demands this belligerent attitude of yours?
Love the scare quotes, do you do any actual organizing as an anarchist or do you stick to posting?
I have plenty of criticisms of the USSR, I just don't care to participate in red scare circlejerks and that clearly rubs some people the wrong way.
I've been here for years, it was literally my first instance and it was the most annoying Lemmy users constantly whining about hexbear that got me to start digging though their modlog and checking it out in the first place lmao.
Can you actually point to anything she's done that disqualifies her from being an anarchist? Like, I can show receipts of you going to the right of the US State Department to defend American Imperialist narratives about Taiwan (nice leftism you got there, Chiang Kai-Shek!). Has she done anything specific that is objectionable?
It's so fucking tiring with these people.
That does tend to happen when you step out of your world of alternative facts.
What facts have been presented in this thread that counter ML "alternative facts"? Where are the arguments where the tankies are getting epicly owned?